Originally posted on The Low Carber Forums back in 2006, it spanned several months, 251 pages, and 3,700 posts.

Then all of Bear’s posts were extracted and posted on The Active No Carber’s site, however this site has been dormant for a few years now, so have archived all of Bear’s posts on this page in case it disappears from the internet.


Hello all,

I have been eating the natural human dietary regime for over 47 years now. I do not eat anything whatsoever from vegetable sources. The only things veggie I use are spices. My diet is usually 60% fat and 40% protein by calories. I used to eat 80/20 when younger and about twice as much quantity of meat also, but that seems too much energy at my age, which is 71- even though I am very active. I think the body actually becomes more efficient with energy as you age, but I have no way of proving it true. Otherwise, my body today is very like it was at the age of 30. I figure most of what we call ‘aging’ is due to insulin damage to the collagen and other body structures. No carbs = no insulin. I don’t heal quite as fast when injured as I did as a youngster, however. But I have few wrinkles, and my skin is still strong and elastic.

At this point I would like to point out that a zero carb diet does NOT cause ketosis. The body rapidly adapts within a few weeks and begins consuming the ketones from fat metabolism. A fully keto-adapted body excretes no ketones in the urine. A metabolic by product, ‘ketone bodies’ are actually a special kind of carb, and they substitute for glucose at the structures which use it. They have the added advantage of making you feel good- and well fed.

The body cannot store dietary fat, there is no mechanism for transport across the adipose cell’s wall, nor can it ‘burn’ carbs, which actually are toxic in more than the tiny amount required by the brain and a few other structures. The body converts dietary carbs (all convert to glucose as they are absorbed) into body fat. The conversion mechanism requires insulin which is very tissue-damaging. It is correct to say that dietary carbs are the base cause of both heart blockage and diabetes, (not a disease).

I must warn all of you that it is very unlikely that very many will be able to eat as I do over the long term, or in fact, to follow any diet for long which is much different from the one you were trained to as a baby/child. This is because diet is learned much the same way language, dress and behaviour is, and is buried deep and inaccessible, a part of your acculturation/socialisation. The very thing which makes us human is that deep and almost instinctive complex of behaviour.

It requires a powerful will and a determination to change, in order to succeed in adopting the ‘extreme’ diet which this website is based on. Even those who are morbidly obese, as powerful a motivation as any I can imagine will have ‘cravings’ for what I call ‘non-food’ (all vegetation and carbs) which will eventually prove irresistible. A few may manage to stay on the diet for years, but unless you are prepared to stick with it for maybe ten or more years, you will drift back into eating what I consider poison. For some reason my mum was not interested in forcing me to eat the veggies I hated so, and i was able to eat only what I liked- mostly meat, especially hamburger and the fat those at our table would cut from their steaks. Still I had massive struggles abandoning the ‘civilised diet’.

I suggest that no non-food be taken home, none allowed in your fridge or pantry (out of sight is hopefully out of mind). Make a request when seated in a restaurant that the bread bin be removed (but please leave the butter), and when ordering, request that the vegetables be removed from the plate in the kitchen (just say you don’t like to see ‘good food go to waste’).

Even during the years I was soundman for Grateful Dead, I stuck to my guns and remained totally carnivorous. I am restricted by the forums rules (as I read them) from telling about my essay on diet and exercise which is posted on my website. Basically it states that humans were totally hunting peoples until the end of the paleolithic age. No paleolithic archeological dig has ever produced any food residues from vegetables. Chemical analysis of bones from the digs indicates they are the same composition as the African lion- thus, virtually no intake of vegetation. There were no ‘hunter-gatherer’ societies until the neolithic, even though some modern HG tribes still made and used typical paleolithic napped-stone tools. The so called Nearthin and Paleodiet thus are both nonsense, true paleolithic people were total carnivores and ate no veggies whatsoever.
In the relatively short evolutionary period since the consumption of vegetables as food there has not been any real adaptation to such low grade low energy, difficult to digest foods. Because we have no adaptation to digesting or processing vegetables as food, they are all basically very bad for us.

We evolved as an active, group-hunting animal. We have a high natural requirement for physical exercise and cannot live long or be healthy without a lot of it.

I hope my post is of some help to others. Just persist. I show that it IS possible to overcome your dietary socialisation.



I see that the old bugbear of ‘seeing’ only what fits into one’s world view still holds strongly amongst some of those responding to my post. I will attempt to clear things up a bit.

My website is: www.thebear.org.


A zero-carb diet is the traditional treatment for diabetes (not a disease) before the development of injectable insulin, first from pigs.

Diabetes is the result of the immune system sensing the widespread tissue damage from insulin, targeting the source cells in the pancreas and destroying them. Insulin resistance type diabetes is the result of the tissues themselves rejecting insulin. Neither form is found in any other animal in nature, man’s carnivorous pets fed a grain based diet may also suffer this syndrome.

In the absence of dietary carbs, the body does not need to produce insulin and the diabetes essentially ‘disappears’. You will never be told this by a doctor because then you would be free of the need for medical intervention and your daily ration of drugs. All the assorted ills diabetics suffer are actually caused by insulin, cataracts, heart attacks, bad joints, etc. These are the kind of damages done to the tissues by insulin, and the injected kind is a far more powerful damaging agent than the endogenous hormone. Blood monitoring on a zero-carb regime will quickly confirm the stability of blood glucose.


Nowhere in my post do I say ‘preprogrammed’. I thought I made it quite clear that a person’s eating habits, including the composition of the diet is solely determined by that person’s mother between birth (and about eight), the same time all the social skills which make us uniquely human ware acquired.

The name of this website is lowcarber.org, is it not? A low carb diet is ‘extreme’ relative to the usual western civilised diet. My diet is just the end point of lowering carbs. My statement was not that it took ‘far too much willpower’, only that it requires strong willpower and great determination.

I am sure that there are a great many things known by anthropologists that you would find ‘impossible to believe’, however scientific evidence does not require belief, only knowledge. The composition of the materials found in paleo digs as well as bone composition tests are well known and published, I suggest a search on Google. And check the journals of anthropology in a library.

Vitamins. that is easy, there are virtually no sources of any vitamins to be in vegetation (which is why all vitamin supplements are synthetic), but all are found in abundance in meat. For example no source of A other than animal liver exists. The amount of B complex in 30 gm of fresh red meat is more than can be extracted from one hundred kilos of yeast concentrate- once it was done, but at great expense. C is not the only antiscorbitic substance, since a diet of just red meat prevents scurvy (the Inuit diet).

Moderns live a long time in spite of a wickedly bad diet but it is due to medicine. Most paleo people died either of trauma of various kinds in hunting and war, starvation or disease. Lifespan is therefore not a measure of the effectiveness of diet, as even a lousy one can get you to ~30/40. I think you mean nutritious. It is just plan nonsense to claim that there is any basic difference between individual humans so far as body functions, etc are concerned, the biggest cop up in avoidance is ‘ is ok for you but everybody’s different’, so please, let’s not go there.


I have eaten nothing but sirloin steaks for months on end, but I do like eggs cheese, many cuts of meat, even organs like liver tongue kidneys and brains (although the Inuit never eat any of them- and most likely neither did the true paleo hunters). Fish and chicken are nice too, in fact I have never ‘met’ an animal I would not eat. The one meat that needs to e eaten sparingly is liver, which contains a lot of starch (glycogen) and vit. A which is toxic in excess. Excess may be as little as one ounce of the liver of an animal feeding on fish.


Concerning vegetables, there is no ‘baby’- it is all just a load of dirty water. Moderns do not eat any raw natural vegetation other than sugary fruit and some difficult to indigestible nuts. All modern veg foodstuff have been extensively modified by selective breeding to reduce to eliminate toxins and still require long cooking, are low in nutrients and cause a growth of harmful bacteria in the intestine, while the fibrous cellulose residues (fibre) scratches the delicate lining and causes mucus and scarring. This reduces nutrition and eventually as you age, this damage will lead to malnutrition even on a good diet. Meat leaves the stomach as a liquid after about 45-60 min, and is totally absorbed in the first foot or two of the small intestine- no scratching and no mucus formation. Human milk is very sweet, hence the ‘sweet tooth’ is easy to develop if reinforced by lollies as a baby. Without this reinforcement sweets are seldom later sought after. If paleo people actually ate seasonal fruits (quite possible in some places), they ate them where found, no evidence or residue has been found in digs.

The only thing careful about my diet is I don’t use salt (a chemical) and I don’t cook the meat much, I make sure I eat a lot of fat. Virtually any meat is ok, even for long periods, it is a matter of personal taste, like- I really like raw oysters and soft shell crabs (and for that matter Aussie mud crabs.)


I eat butter, of course. Mayo is normally made with unsat veg oils and is high in salt. If you like the stuff, which I do, you should make your own from egg yolks, macadamia oil and lemon juice.

I love garlic.

I buy my meat like most people- at a good quality market. Due to where I live, in Australia, I am able to buy meat which is paddock fed (on grass) and not feedlot ‘fattened’ on grain, which only adds cost. Grain is not a natural food for bovines, and it requires the animal be fed a special mix of bacteria to digest it, also I do not particularly like the taste of feedlot beef.

Cows are NOT generally ‘injected with hormones’ nowadays due to stringent restrictions on residues in beef exports (usual is to feed a growth supplement for a period and withdraw it weel before slaughter), and even those who were, do not have any residues by the time of slaughter, the hormones, which are bovine, do not effect humans anyway- and the amount which is active in the animal is so slight in the relatively portion you would eat as to be measured in nanograms. hormones are not like LSD (effective in micrograms), and it requires a significant amount to have any effect at- that is- if the hormone is a human one, which is not the case with the bovine ones.

All meat is ‘organic’- you cannot feed cattle (or other foodd animals like chickens (‘organic’ chickens suck- they are tough due to growing slower on a all grain based diet, lack plumpness and are tasteless) on chemicals like you can plants.

Paying the premium (often twice the usual amount) for so-called organic meat is like piling up your hard earned and setting fire to it- it is just plain dumb. Actually most organic meat is tough, lack a proper marbling of fat and has nothing to recommend it over normal beef in the nutrition department- save your money so you can buy more food with it.


Chocolate, 100% unsweetened, is ~50% carbs. The xanthines are what give it a bitter taste (theobromine, caffeine and theophylline). The true (best) human diet is NOT about what ‘tastes good’- actually most vegetables taste perfectly awful plain and virtually 100% of babies reject them on first exposure, while all accept meats (human milk and pulped meat are the only foods a newborn can digest- but be careful with the fat content). It is the complex of spices and cooking additives/techniques which make up ‘cuisine’ (I am a highly skilled cook).

Once habituated to the taste of vegetables, as I have noted, it is so difficult to move away from them that most people will never do it. The excuse is always those stated in the above posts by nancy lc et al. This is just their strong socialisation speaking loud and clear, it has nothing to do what is right, good or nutritious. At birth we have no ‘taste’ for anything, not even our mum’s milk, just a sucking reflex. All food is acquired taste. The common question about ‘isn’t a diet of only meat boring?’ is simply the result of the heavy spicing of most food items. Actually each feed of meat, even unspiced and when it is the exact same cut, smells and tastes heavenly and is consumed with gusto. Food does not have to be used as entertainment, but that is what it has come to be in our modern culture. Meals, especially in restuarants, are commonly treated as ‘showtime’.

I dispute the claim about human coproliths in association with true plaeo- lithic remains- Those have been found only with meso- or neo- lithic sites. My research has not uncovered that claim for the true paleo- period. The claim of many modern ‘research’ projects are questionable, since financial sponsorship can and does predetermine outcomes.


I don’t think books are going to provide a way to understand something like this. No one has previously written about it, because, like doing brain surgery on oneself, examination of our ‘instinctive’ and unconscious socialisation process is very difficult. Babies will ‘trip’ inbuilt responses in the adults and other children around them to provide answers and information on skills they need according to their age-window. Children will repeat things taught them seemingly endlesssly until they become skilled.

I have been long puzzled about how easy it was for me, and how nearly impossible for virtually everyone else to adopt the all meat diet. After 47 years of this, and I am not bragging when I say that I am a bit above the average intelligence, I have finally come to the conclusions I have made about human acculturation.

For instance read my essay on Children’s TV. I worked for many years as a broadcast TV engineer and technician, during which time I had a funny feeling that all was not right with Sesame Street, that it somehow was damaging kids and not really teaching anything, but I could not put a face to what it was. The essay is not about diet, but about the very insidious and hidden destruction of our society which is ongoing today by taking the irreplaceable TIME for learning essential skills amongst our kids away and subsituting the passive watching of TV (the ubiquitous electronic ‘babysitter’). If you want some literary insight into how we humans learn as children to become human, read the work of the famous child educator, the Countess Montessori. Hers may be the only written work which can be said to relate in some way to our (also) dietary acculturation.

You need only understand that we have only the most basic animalistic instincts at birth and our early cultural training is fixed so strongly into who we are that it can usually override them all. Failure of acculturation therefore is a very serious and difficult to remedy disaster for humanity.



‘Swallow’? ‘Thesis’? Nothing I have written constitutes a ‘thesis’ (perhaps you meant theorum), it is a recount of life experiences and references to fact.

I guess that the term ‘swallow’ is humorously related to the subject matter….

Sorry about that, duparc, but my website is NOT commercial in any sense of the word, it is partly a virtual gallery and show site for my art past and present, my music and an online venue for exposing some of my philosophical thoughts to those who are interested. I do not offer anything for sale anywhere on the site. I am at a loss as to what you define as ‘commercial’.

‘We on this site’, Are you the moderator? Did you poll everyone and find that to be the case, or are you just trying to look important. I suggest you not go there. A low carb diet is what my eating regime is, it is one of the obvious end-points on the scale. Judging by the response, your attitude is in the minority.

I am not interested in attempting to justify any ‘long term benefits’, I simply am sharing my 47 years of experience with a very effective and healthy diet.

‘Predates’? On the contrary, my diet was based on a large body of life experiences, knowledge and research by experts such as Richard Macarness, MD, and Dr Viljhalmur Stefansson- who as is well known was a subject with Dr Anderson in a year long closely monitored all meat diet in 1928 at the Mayo clinic in NYC, which, if you are 75, is prior to your birth. I am definitely not ‘stepping outside any social convention’. I would really like to hear just what that term means to you! I guess this sort of information has put your social food-training and concepts under threat. I am sorry, but I can’t help you with it.

Finally, although YOU may indeed be guessing (and for that matter, what you define as ‘being in good shape’ and mine may be miles apart), nothing I have written in my posts or on my site is a ‘guess’, it is all verifiable fact. I do not deal in guesses nor belief systems.

What has arithmetic to do with dietary fixation?

dodger- The usual grade of ‘cooking/baking’ chocolate you find on grocery shelves in the US (USDA) may indeed be as you state, but fine qualilty, European 100% chocolate and high fat cocoa is 40 to 50% carbohydrate, as is shown on the label. Try Belgian Callibrot if you can find it, for a real choc treat. Just be mindful of the carbs-

jandlsmom- I eat anything which is not a vegetable or contains carbohydrates, like milk or yoghurt. Thus any animal will do, and all cheeses- watch the label on cottage cheese, however many kinds have a lot of lactose residue. Menus? actually I don’t bother, I just buy what strikes me at the market and if I happen to wind up eating the same cut of meat for days, weeks or months, like finding a great discounted/wholesale special price on whole cryovac’d sirloin strip steak, it does not bother me. Heavy reliance on ‘variety’ is connected with vegetation, even heavily addicted people cannot stand to eat the same one over and over.

I enjoy cooking, been at it since age 12. So, rather than menus, how about a recipe I developed?

Try this: A large chicken, 4-5 lbs (2.2+ kg). Carefully separate the skin from the meat by passing your hand gently through the evisceration opening in the abdomen- try not to tear the skin.. Make a mixture of 4 oz (100gm) of unsalted butter and the same amount of Philly cream cheese. Mix spices, like curry or chilli powder, 2 teaspoons with the softened (not too soft) cheese and butter to make a uniform paste- I like a spice mix used in Argentina, called Chimi Churi- a spice preparation which I buy here in Oz from Peter Watson in Melbourne Vic. But it is not required what spices you use, try different mixtures. Using a spoon, place the mix through the opening, some on each side, and squeeze it out between the skin and meat to form a thickness of 1/8″ (3mm). Take the last bit and smear it over the skin, place on a rack over a pan in a 350F (180C) oven, preferably a fan-circulating one, and roast for 60-70 min. It is hard to stop eating this bird. The drippings make a wonderful gravy. I like this style of chook so much that I often roast two birds at once- two people can completely devastate one between them.


Opps, almost forgot:

How to make mayo- basic instructions may be found in any good basic cookbook, like Joy of Cooking, etc. Use raw egg yolks, beaten well. The oil is slowly drizzeled in while vigorously stirring. I don’t add any salt, but add a bit of lemon juice. The right ratio of egg yolks to oil has to be found by experiment, to produce a nice texture. It is a bit tricky, so don’t give up if your first attempt is not what you expect.

The only good veg oils are palm, coconut and macadamia nut- but only mac is easy to use in mayo, although if you can get a fine quality of palm it may be worth a try. Coconut has too high a melting point. Mac oil gives mayo a nice nutty flavour.


Ok, jandlsmom- but please read carefully my earlier posts and my essays, I think most of your questions have already been seen to.

Eggs are very good food- but not if hard cooked, which denatures the protein. Don’t eat raw eggwhite, it has an antivitamin, avidin (antibiotin). I can eat a dozen eggs a day, easy.

Olive oil has a lot of poly-unsats- has a strong, not very pleasant taste, as well. Mac oil is mostly mono-ok, if not in large amounts, and tastes great. Good for frying fish, too. Palm and coconut are both saturated and therefore very good food unlike the rest of the veg oils, which are best avoided.

Smart thing is to stick to animal fat, which is the perfect fuel our body was ‘designed’ to use (saturated triglycerides are the kind of fat you store). High cuisine was traditionally based on beef tallow, lard and butter, vegetable oils used were few and put mostly on salads. What do you put mayo on? I can find few things other than cold chicken or fish on which it can be used- it is something put on vegetables, bread (andwiches) etc., which are not a part of my diet. I have not used much mayo in a long time. Last major use was for canned tuna, but i gave that away. I think egg ‘salad’ is about it.


I see acculturation is alive and well, all the comments on vegetation as well as young kids copying mum are to be expected, as the eating of veggies is learned long before speech.

So far as duparc, I am appalled to find his mind so poisoned with his own calcified ego that he chooses to call me a liar. I have no need to lie. Why bother? The way I found the Eskimo/Inuit diet in 1958 is EXACTLY as I have recounted, and I resent narrow minded fools attacking my veracity and honour. No one has to follow my path, I am just trying to share it for those for whom it may be of use. I do not expect anyone to adapt the all meat lifestyle, it is against the basic modern’s acculturation as noted, and my experience has verified the difficulty.

Creationist is it? Whew. Superstition should play no part in a modern educated person’s life. This is not to say that the Universe is not a conscious entity, only to say that it works perfectly without a humanoid god-figure controlling it, and follows exactly all the rules of science and nature (I suggest reading a little book called the Kybalion). In my mind, the Universe is a constantly created thing which we are part of, and is not a clock wound up once and let go. Everything in Alchemy can be tested in science and science has proven evolution. But this is not really a part of dietary practice other than to say that life is just as conscious for plants as for animals. Plants are likely to be more conscious due to a lack of an ego limiting and focusing perception due to the need to move around a seek food. It is just that we are not able to understand plants. Some research (Backster)has verified their ability to respond to music and identify threat, etc. Life lives on life, whether an animal eats animals or plants it is the way organic creatures exist, face it. We are what our evolution has made us. If we began and remained herbivorous (which we did not- earliest primates were insectivores), we would be about as intelligent as the other animals which eat plants, like cattle and sheep. The development and maintenance of a large brain and high intelligence, is a very energy intensive undertaking- and is unlikely ever to occur in a herbivore who lives on very low quality, high mass foods- and none have.


I suggest that people coming on to this thread read ALL my posts first before asking about things I have already covered, like dairy, eggs etc. Animal husbandry was a true paleo food solution, and appeared well before agriculture.

Perhaps a better comparison, rather than with the great apes, who are not in the direct human evolutionary line and separated from us over 4 million ybp, but with the tree shrew, which of all the primates of today is still a specialised insectivore. The mountain gorilla is today’s largest non-specialist insectivore- massive backs provide the power to strip the bark off grub- infested trees. Captive gorillas didn’t accept red meat as food, but ate vegetation on offer, the basis of the formerly held (false) assumption they were herbivores. However they all proved infertile until animal-based food was given to them in an acceptable form to replace their natural food-bugs. The tree shrew (looks like a big mouse with very human-shaped ears) evolved from a precursor insectivore placed earlier in our direct ancestral lineage. That man may have been an opportunist (like the dog) way back is perfectly reasonable, an my explain why, unlike felines both dogs and men are able to manage some vegetation- but we have very little capacity and we pay a price in tooth decay and wear, stomach/intestinal/gall bladder problems, arterial blockage and the auto-immune syndrome, diabetes. Not value for ‘biological money’ except for short periods of no food animal. I suggest reading about what is now known about apes in the professional scientific journals before making spurious statements about the dietary habits of the great apes, there has been extensive recent research in the literature on dietary habits. By the way- chimps like monkey meat best- and nothing better than a nice fat baboon. They hunt in cooperative groups very like we do.

The false claim about carnivores eating the stomach and/or its contents is an ancient vegetarian hoax. No Inuit would consider eating the stomach of a prey animal as food. Dogs won’t eat it and neither will my domestic cat. In spite of being 15 yrs old, and castrated, he loves to chow down on wild baby bunny- he eats the little buggers bones, skull and all, but carefully leaves the furry feet, stomach and intestines in a pile in the middloe of a path. My guess is, it is ‘bragging rights’ he is exercising. How he could know that rabbits are a serious pest here is a mystery

‘Dead dairy’- right. The cult of raw-milkers. I would have to say that the cream and butter from a home cow might be a bit tastier, but the major claim raw-milkers make is about the damage heat does to the calcium which is not a part of butter or cream, and many cheeses are made from raw milk in Europe. Pasteurisation by flash-heating and immediate flash cooling of commercially marketed diary provides protection from a range of nasties and is worth way more than any perceived loss.

Milk (of any animal) is not good for adults, especially low fat or skim- they feature prominently in the market trollies pushed by very obese individuals in all the market I have been in. Children have milk-specific enzyme systems in the stomach up to about 6 yrs, adults do not. Human babies do poorly on non-human milk, the best you can get as a substitute for mum is mare’s milk.

Before that human populations were locked into prey availability, vis-a-vis the Inuit- were right up until recent time. Inuit are known to have life-spans to 90+, but most never make that figure due to various kinds of accidents, trichinosis from eating raw arctic predators meat and overall body damage from sometimes lengthy periods of starvation due to scarcity of prey animals.

Of course a meat diet did not and in fact cannot exceed or even reach 70%- it is toxic at hign levels. It was ~20% to maybe as high as 50% in times of low fat on the prey available. The all meat diet is NOT in strict terms a ‘low carb diet’, it is a high FAT diet. It is possible to survive a verylong period on not pretein as well as not carbs, in other words on fat alone- many months can go by. In a shortage of dietary protein the body becomes very conserving of amino acids and if not damaged, does not break them down, but recycles them


Correction (oops)

Of course IN a meat diet, PROTEIN did not, and in fact cannot exceed or even reach 70%- it is toxic at hign levels.

It was ~20% to maybe as high as 50% in times of low fat on the prey available.


You mean that direct and repeated implication that I am a liar and have commercial interests in my postings is ok, but requesting the accuser to desist is not?

Sorry about that, perhaps I am just a late comer and don’t yet have defense rights.

I do not lie. My story is true and I am just trying to share my 47+ years of eating a very low carb diet with other people like my self who have a serious bodyfat problem.

I always expected to find rejection and denial, including intense and emotional arguments in favour of the accepted but untrue conception that humans evolved as omnivores. I did not expect to be called a liar and a fraud by someone who could not accept that I actually have been on this path as long as I have and found it myself by paying attention to stories told by a famous adventurer. What basis does someone have to go there?

There are many interviews I have given over the years and stories told about me which refer to my strict carnivorous habits.

I only know 3 people who have done the trip for more than a few months, and I do not expect many of the readers of this forum will even get to that place. I have therefore been careful to point out the deep social connection between food and culture- dietary carbs and eating behaviour is fixed in childhood, it is part of your permanent lifestyle. and requires great effort (call it ‘will’ if you like) to change.

For this reason it is not necessary to defend your diet by accusing me of perfidy, I already accept that you are not going to change, and that most likely all of you will regain the lost bodyfat restricting carbs has brought you. Those who are only very slowly losing fat or have stopped losing probably need to lower the carbs to less than 5gm/day, which I term ‘zero carbs’. A diet is not going to give you a normal body to keep, only a permanent change of lifestyle is. Which is the point of my telling you how I did it, that I did with out going past my max of 186 lbs (at 20 yrs. for only 6 mos), and have maintained a nice 6-12% bodyfat for 47 years (and counting). I would weigh 320 lbs or more and probably would not have lived to reach 50 if I had not changed my lifestyle.

I just felt that I needed to let people know that eatiing nothing but meat works, and not only that but it works fantastically well. You do not need science projects or extensive research into the past to understand what works, a person’s life experiences should do it- Stefansson’s did it for me. And don’t forget all those Inuit…


The majority of Inuit live on land and eat mostly caribou and elk. They also will eat fish and few tribes hunt whales, but the marine animals are mostly taken during the warmer time of year- the tribes that live on or near the ocean will hunt seal by staking out the breathing holes, as do polar bears.

Polar bears, by the way, are the largest bears on the planet and are total carnivores, NOT omnivores. Some monkeys are herbivores.

Fire and napped-stone tools came along at about the same time, and it is this which allowed us to become carnivorous hunters and scavengers. But you don’t need to go back into the past to find the truth, your body (not your mind) knows what is right and will respond to the right mix. What is real is what you and your body are like after following your path for more than 10 years- better- for more than forty.


If you ask an Aboriginal man what traditional food is, he will name all the animals he can hunt. If you ask him about other food, he will than tell you about the ‘bush tucker’ you can eat when you can’t find any animals. Both men and women will hunt, but men rarely gather. The Aborigines are modern hunter-gatherers, their prehistory (dreamtime) is not known to science.


Oh, by the way- it is not hard to eat raw meat, cut it small, mash it a bit in the mouth and swallow- Inuit eat a lot of their meat raw. Many of the women have worn down their teeth (no cavities, however) from chewing on sandy hides when making clothes- it is not always convenient to cook the meat- it is easy to eat it. This is the reason that trichina is a problem in the north.


I don’t think that trying to duplicate a diet like the paleolithic hunters ate is very wise and is certainly unnecessary, for one thing we haven’t a clue as to what it was other than from the bones etc in the digs.

Dairy is a kind of meat, but whole milk is sugary- with lactose. Cheese, cream and butter are ok. So what if we eat the meat-foods which are available in modern times? Few of us are likely to go out and hunt for our daily ‘crust’ (as they say down here).

We ARE modern people, and we have special groups of people who will do the work of getting the meat and making it available to us. My eating plan is simple- I just eat meat- any meat. One to six meals a day, and I don’t worry about it- it is all rather yummy. I don’t like to cook things much so I don’t eat pork, and turkey makes me feel sluggish for hours, so I avoid that one too. I eat a lot of fat, animal fat.

I used to take vitamins, but stopped years ago. After noticing some difficulties in certain weight lifting exercises, I had some tests done and was told by a very competent kinesiologist that I should not take synthetic vitamin supplements, because due to eating the quantity of meat I do, I was suffering from a vitamin B overdose, which was causing some muscle weaknesses.

‘I (heart) animals, they’re delicious’- …. from a much-loved bumper sticker.


Actually I wasn’t run off, I was in hospital Tuesday/Wed for an operation to repair holes in my eardrums. I got the holes from grommets placed there to relieve blocked Eustachian tubes caused by radiation therapy in ’04 for throat cancer- the cancer was killed- but not without some collateral damage. Tubes opened up after a few months, but the grommets did not ‘fall out’ as I was told they would. As a musician, I have been very upset over my hearing for a while, but I think this is going to work and I will get back what hearing I had, at least. Nothing can fix the roll-off that years of Grateful Dead did to me, of course. And… I used cotton wool in my ears most of the time.

We (the doctors, my son -a vet- and I) think the cancer remained in my neck due to my very low glucose turnover, since most cancers of this kind (stage 4a SCC/tonsil) metastase rapidly. SCC cells are very glucose avid. Another life plus from the zero-carb lifestyle. The specialist who supervised my treatment said my fitness level was very important and helped my recovery. I have to say, this kind of thing is not anything you ever want to undergo. One thing that was interesting was that the radiation makes it impossible to swallow anything, even water, so they wanted me to get aq tube put through my abdomen into my stomach a ‘PEG” tube. I resisted and lost weight like crazy- I simply could not swallow enough of anything, even protein drinks with heavy cream, and had the tube put in. Then of course they wanted me to use a prepared liquid meal called Sustegen- carb based of course, which I refused.

I managed to get a nice food processor and made my regular meat and fat meals, turned them into a liquid, and squirted them in with a 60 ml syringe- Takes forever to get enough to eat that way, I can tell you. In the end, I still must make soup-like meals because a nerve was crushed by the tumour and half my throat does not contract to force solids into my esophagus. Nothing tastes the same either (garlic helps), but that is not as bad as not being able to simply chew up and swallow pieces of lovely rare steak. Not to complain, I like being alive and I don’t have any kind of fixation on how I eat my food. Oysters are a love from my youth, and I can still chew them up and wash them down ok, So all is not lost.

They said it was very odd I should get this kind of cancer, it is usually a mark of smoking tobacco and drinking hard spirits. But I was exposed to years of heavy tobacco smoke during my days as a soundman- smokey bars and clubs, limos and venues- Garcia for one smoked Camels.

I smoked for a couple of years from about 11, but it made me feel shitty in the morning and I gave it away. I much prefer cannabis to alcohol, never liked hard liquor and gave away even having the odd glass of wine in ’90 when I began lifting weights.


I don’t know whether polar bears ever eat any non-meat items, certainly Stefansson did not think they did, and the polar bear is considered an endangered species due to a reduction in prey availability. That some carnivores, especially the canids, the family to which all true bears belong (pandas are not bears but large members of the raccoon family) may eat some non-meat items does not mean they can digest them- and anyway, what does this line of pursuit have to do with what a human eats? I mentioned the polar bear only because one posting said bears were omnivores, but the polar bear is not an omnivore.

…I will answer my own question- it has nothing to do with it, it is simply someone expressing unconscious discomfort at the ideas I am promoting- socialisation strikes again.

The thing which makes humans unique is our society, and our culture. Animals also may have culture, like the Japanese monkeys who learn to wash their food in the ocean from each other and chimps learning to use simple tools from other chimps, and the most extreme, learning (human) sign language from another chimp- but in humans it completely overrides all our instinctive behaviour. The upside is so obvious I don’t need to mention it, but the down side is that, like trying to do brain surgery on yourself, it is very hard to understand and change- it is written at too deep a level in our consciousness.


Thanks, folks- for the defense. It IS getting a bit wearing. If a person has nothing real to say, it is best to keep the mouth shut.

No-one knows exactly what the syndrome called scurvy is, but a simple diet of raw (or lightly cooked) meat completely prevents it.

I think people need to recognise that medicine is not a science, but an art, and is based on observations plus a very conservative approach.

The profession of the ‘dietitian’ is even less scientific, and is basically an organised attempt to justify the common modern diet by various means, such as the ‘food pyramid’.

You do not need science to heal, nor to find what works in life. The longer the experience with any given path (like diet) which works, the more likely it is to be right, research or no research.

Cancer has not been shown to be connected to diet- the scare over colon cancer and meat content was related to a mixed diet, and the research is now considered suspect.

A few cancers have been shown to be connected to viruses, and those of the skin with UV exposure in a susceptible individual, but most causes are still mysterious. My developing of the specific kind of cancer was considered very unusual, and I agreed to participate in a project which is looking for causes other than alcohol and tobacco. A sample of normal tissue was taken, as well as cancerous, and I was told they suspect something concerning DNA may hold the key.


Did I understand that there is someone who wishes answers (to unasked questions)? Plese define the questions. Oh, and also, please define exactly what you mean when you use the word ‘candid’. I may have a different dictionary than you do.


‘Acculturation’ = Acquiring culture. What you are taught as a baby/child about living as a human being in society, starting at birth and virtually complete by age 8. A kind of social toolkit. Without this we would be just another animal. Our culture is what defines humanity. It is very difficult for any person to change any part of this early training which was burned in heavily. If some of the things we need to know to be human is not learned during the several short, skill-specific ‘windows’ which open and close as a child ages, in time, that particular skill may never be learned (the rare so-called feral children, which were lost and raised by animals, exhibited varying amounts of disability, some could not learn to talk, some not able to walk upright). Culture includes such things ashow to walk, what to eat, how to dress, language, manners and much more.

I suggest a read of the writings of Countess Montessori, who founded the Montessori Schools. They are perhaps the best school for very young children. She defines each learning window so specific things are taught at an appropriate age, where the child is ready. Her teaching methods are very effective.

Anyone on an ‘all meat diet’ (i.e.-zero-carbs) who is hungry, is eating carbs, it is as simple as that. ‘Hunger’ indicates low bloodsugar, and once keto-adapted on a strict meat diet the bloodsugar never varies. Therefore, you will not become hungry, even after several days without food. At first, I had to remind myself to eat and it still is a problem on busy days- evening comes and I might realise I haven’t eaten since daybreak. I’m never hungry.

‘Candid’ = Plainspoken. Open. Speaking out on the subject, not prevaricating, even when it is not PC to do so. Suits me right down to the ground.


Correct. You need to think about eating.

On a zero-carb diet, it is a good idea to eat on a schedule of some kind, because there will be no hunger pangs.

It is perfectly ok to only eat one large meal/day, like a three pound steak- but it is likewise just as ok to eat as many as six. If you are working out and trying to gain muscle mass, eat six smaller steaks rather than one or two big ones. I have eaten as much as four or five pounds of steak in a day- and as little as one or two, it matters not- but if you ingest less calories than you are burning, you will lose muscle mass as well as bodyfat. If you ingest more than you need, the body discards the excess- quite different than is the case with carbs.

Meat eaten alone is out of the stomach in about one hour. (vegetation takes 3-4 hours).


The reason you were taught to eat vegetables by your mum is because your mum was taught to eat vegetables by her mum as a baby, and her mum was taught that before her, and her mum’s mum….all the way back to prehistory.

Benefit or no- health or illness- has nothing to do with why we eat what we do, we eat what we do because we were taught to eat that way. In any family the kids will eat what the adults eat and so on infinitum.

Culture is not a plan which some mysterious ‘culture elite’ have prescribed and agreed upon, it is a set of traditions, evolved in each society over a long period of time, learned by rote and passed down without thought or question from generation to generation. There are many cultures.


Meat is dissolved quickly by the hydrochloric acid your stomach is optimised to produce over 75% of its surface area. Vegetation stimulates the production of certain enzymes which are not quickly made and come from about 25%. The HCl is easy to turn on and turn off, the enzyme systems are not easy, and it is one of the reasons the mixed diet person experiences hunger- the stomach is busy making more digestive juice.

The bit about meat taking a long time and veggies a short time to digest is an ancient fallacy promulgated by vegetarians. Don’t believe everything written in some book, there is no law against writing fiction.

This is very basic physiology. Any textbook gives the time of transit of food in the gut. NOTHING takes 12 hrs, if so why would you want to eat lunch a few hours after brekkie? and dinner after lunch?

In high school, I joined the boxing team to learn a bit of skill and get the other kids to stop messing with me- (it worked like a charm). Our coach would feed us a plain rare steak, with fat on, but with no water about one hour before every match. He said it took 45 minutes to leave the stomach, and fifteen to be absorbed into the blood- thus providing a lot of energy for the bout- he was not wrong, we won almost every match. This was in 1949, well before the diet-nazis had taken over. Obviously you would not want to be hit in the gut if there was anything still undigested in your stomach, and boxers always go for the gut.


I have said- I will eat any animal, and I love seafood. I drink about 2 to 4 litres of rainwater a day. Our rain is very pure, we do not have any air pollution in the southern hemisphere because there is virtually no nuclear south of the equator.


The truth is, there is no excuse to eat any carbs at all. Your body has a built-in fat level it will maintain. Without dietary carbs it is very hard to store fat. All dietary fat must be burned, there is no mechanism to store it.

Thus, a person whose bodyfat level is above their ‘fat-o-stat’ set-point will lose/burn body fat no matter how many calories they eat- i.e., it is not necessary to restrict your food, eat as much as feels good. The body has a limit to the amount of fat you can eat and digest at one sitting, determined by the bile, and once you have eaten that amount, you will stop, but can still eat the lean. Forcing things will work like drinking like castor or mineral oil- it is purging.

Once you reach your proper level, which varies a bit from person to person, but is around 11-15% for men and 18-23% for women, then you only have to eat as many calories as you burn- or a bit more- to stay the same. Only a reduction below daily needs will cause a change. Extra calories without any carbs will not fatten you. To get ‘ripped’ like a bodybuilder (>5% bf) is very hard, and requires both discipline and a calorie reduction.

Atkins’ was on the right road but some of his ideas were wrong- he made up his diet to appeal to people used to eating a lot of vegetation, he couldn’t tell the truth that all carbs are the enemy of the genetically obese. I was on my routine for years before his book came out, and I pinned him as a diet-wuss. There is no such things as ‘induction’ in dietary terms- you eat what you eat and your body accepts what it is, and adapts. Most really heavy people cannot lose the excess body fat they carry if they eat as Atkins suggests.


I sometimes make beef jerky. It can be an excellent snack, but lacks fat and is therefore not a complete food, some supplemental fat is necessary. It can be made into pemmican, a complete food, by adding fat. The instructions are pretty simple, take lean (heavy fat marbling slows drying, and can lead to spoilage) meat, slice to about 1/8″ thickness, and dry with heat at 104F (40C) max. This is very important any higher will cause the loss of nutrients, lower will not do the job quickly enough. Never use any salt or other additive, just clean, fresh lean raw meat. I have used a gas oven with a pilot light and the door left ajar, but you must check it empty with an accurate thermometer to be sure it is not too hot. If no pilot, such as in an electric oven, use an incandescent lamp, try different wattages to select the right size. Jerky is dry to crumble in about 8 hours. To make pemmican, powder the jerky and add an equal weight of, not hot (melted) tallow made from rendering beef suet. This is a greasy mass and is not really very palatable as is, but can be added to warm water to make a sort of soup. Jerky should be very dry and not leathery like the commercial junk- which means it is still too wet and will spoil. Pemmican can be kept for up to 30 years so long as it is kept sealed away from air. More information on jerky and pemmican can be found in either Fat of the Land or The US Army Arctic Survival manual 1944, by Stefansson.

I am sorry some respondents cannot seem to accept that I am not on any kind of agenda/promotion when I describe my experiences. I tell only what it is like, and I sometimes refer to things I have read. Perhaps it would be helpful for me to post a short list of pertinent articles I have collected from journals over the years. I will do that, so whomever is interested can go to the library and look them up, or subscribe to the online versions. They are mostly studies of metabolism and one very important one on the proposal of insulin as the prime cause of coronary artery disease.

The simple answer is embodied in the responses of those who have actually gone onto a zero carb regime and kept to it for long enough to become fully adapted. All the ‘research’ in the world is not going to change what is true and what is not- this is best determined right down at the coal face, by following the path and observing the results

The unfortunate fact is that much of the published research is badly flawed, the result of carefully selecting data (and falsifying data) and asking prepared questions so as to get a desired result- both due to incompetent training in school, and also for financial rewards. A large body of research, the sort which was used to support the low fat diet fiasco was funded by big agriculture. The important products of big ag are the mass produced, low labour cereal grains, oilseed and sugar, not animal products.

Meat and dairy are very labour intensive, and do not give a high profit return to the primary producers, the best profit is at the end of the line- at retail, the butcher does pretty well.. Thus, there is a high incentive to reduce animal fat, increase vegetable oil consumption and get people to eat grain and sugar. Similarly, the medical profession does not profit from healthy people, so there is no strong motive in the industry to support the truth.

Although many doctors are primarily motivated to help people, still, a good income is always important. The zero carb diet is perfect for diabetics, however that would cut out the need for constant supervision by a physician, and eliminate the need for a very profitable drug, insulin. The drug industry, well known for placing profit in front of any sense of proper conduct, funds a powerful lobby to the medical profession.



Neanderthal was a hominid. A member of our genus, homo. We do not know that they were different in any major way other than some physical features from other homo species or in fact, if they were indeed a different species (which means ‘cannot interbreed’)- altogether: A ‘hybrid’ might not show Neanderthal features- if they were recessive) of that period, their tools were identical- an indication of trade and the sharing of skills. The choice of defining speciation in prehistoric humans is a matter of conjecture based on what is known, and is not ‘chiseled in stone’, so to speak.

There is some evidence they may have interbred and were absorbed into our genotype (some individuals show features considered as being Neanderthaloid, such as a very prominent brow ridge- musician Jorma Kaukonen is an example), rather than just disappeared.

I am a modern man, and live in the modern world. It is not a part of my path to find and slavishly copy ancient ways. They are only mentioned as an indication of our evolution as carnivores over millions of veggie-free years.

In case anyone has not followed the current scandal over wheat and Iraq, cereals are very lucrative, especially for the US and Europe, both subsidise wheat so heavily that is very profitable indeed. Primary producers of meat have very heavy costs in labour, veterinarian services, land use and degradation, costs of transport- live animals have a high specific value per unit weight, thus investment is high, and they require special higher cost transport. Grain is a stable, bulk commodity like sand or gravel. etc, value is low and thus the amount of investment per unit weigh tied up is low. Not only that, but the cost of holding cattle for 90 days in feedlots, accompanied by the need to alter their lumen bacteria and the costs of the grain (not a natural food for ruminants) almost doubles the cost/per pound over grass fattening.

I live in the middle of cattle country, where the grass is exceptionally nourishing and I know the local graziers well- trust me, they all live close to the line, so close that one has opened a butcher shop in order to sell his meat at retail in order to raise his family’s income level. Low fat is a huge bonus for Big Ag with its automated planting and harvesting. Whether you want to accept it or not, your data is suspect. Unlike raising grains and oilseeds which is virtually automated, the is no special advantage to being big as a meat producer other than some economy of scale on land use- it is the labour component which rules the costs. A large mob of cattle needs dozens of men to handle them, whereas thousands of acres of wheat or corn can be planted, fed and harvested by a very few operators. There are no veterinary costs to raising plants, and the product is very stable, keeps well and does not require expensive storage- like energy-intensive refrigeration, nor does it require rapid sale and consumption up on ‘harvest’. Why is this so difficult to comprehend? It is so obvious.


I live in a different time zone, so i have a lot to catch up on each morning. Here is a hodgepodge of answers and ripostes.

All essential vitamins and nutrients are found in lean meat and animal fat, including Vit E. and omega 3. Vegetables do not have vitamins to any significant extent, and some vitamins cannot be soured from any vegetable, like A. Soy is toxic- and a very poor food for humans/children, perhaps dietary deficiency led to the the sweet tooth. Just steaks alone are sufficient for health and longevity, provided there is enough fat on them. You do not need variety in animals nor any organ meats unless you like them. I would suggest going easy on liver, it is starchy can fatten you and poison you with Vit A if you eat too much or too often. Brains are good, as is kidney. but both taste sweet to me.

Dr Macarness, in his (for me) seminal book Eat Fat and Grow Slim put forth the suggestion that those of us who are ‘genetically obese’ (my term) actually suffer from an inability to process certain intermediates/byproducts of the conversion of glucose to fat, (krebs cycle). He focused on pyruvic acid, which he said built up and inhibited fat burning. The person then falls asleep or otherwise has very low energy after a meal until the glucose clears. I had this problem- after a meal I always wanted to nap. I don’t know if he was right or not about what the mechanism was, but treating it like a ‘black box’ and dealing only with input and output, it describes exactly what happens to me if I consume carbs.

My credentials? You’re kidding of course. Credentials for what, issued by whom? My ‘credentials’ are 47 years of living a zero carb lifestyle and 47 years of having many friends attack and disparage my lifestyle as ‘unhealthy’, all the while managing to die form things which have either not bothered me or that I have overcome.

I doubt there IS a living 47 yr veteran of veganism. Or even a 27 year one.

Blood sugar is controlled in the absence of dietary intake, by the liver and is dead stable at ~100 mg/dl (there is no way you can have zero blood sugar- it is a necessary nutrient to brain tissue and some other tissues- at that very low level, equivalent of about 5 gms total in the body. Insulin is a very, very body-damaging compound,and is only needed in conjunction with glucagon to control glucose when the diet includes carbs. The ills, both serious and life limiting, ascribed to diabetes (not a disease) are due to exogenous insulin injections. Insulin is not produced in the absence of high blood sugar levels. Prior to injectable insulin diabetic people were able to live long and healthy lives on a zero carb (‘non farinaceous’) diet. Unsaturated vegetable oils, especially poly’s oxidise to organic peroxides, the most powerful ‘free radicals’ known. These outweigh any antioxidants present in vegetables. Raw egg (white) contains a powerful ‘antivitamin’ called avidin, which destroys biotin. Light cooking (soft boiled or coddled) destroys avidin.

I make a wonderful zero-carb ice cream with raw egg yolks, heavy cream, lactose-free milk protein and various flavours like vanilla and espresso. I use a very small amount of aspartame as a sweetener, since ice cream seems to need it. I have two sizes of White Mountain churn. Typical: 16 egg yolks, 2 litres heavy cream (35% mf), one cup water with two heaping tablespoons of a 3 to 1 mixture of calcium caseinate/ion exchange whey (or use lactose free ‘total milk protein’- if you can find it), 1/4 teaspoon aspartame (Nutrasweet), three cups double short-black espresso, 2 tablespoon of high quality vanilla extract. Use a 6 qt churn with coarse salt and broken lump ice. Don’t let the churn go too long, or it will turn to butter. You can skip the milk protein, but the texture will suffer.

The Inuit can be taken as an example in nature that there are no nutritional deficiencies under an all meat diet: All examinations and tests done back when they still lived the traditional life showed perfect health, no dental caries, no CAD, no obesity and no diabetes, plus- barring accidents and severe bouts of starvation and parasites, a very long life to ~90+ yrs..


The eating of wheat by humans is regional, since wheat is the most toxic of the cereal grains. Unless wheat is started very early in life it cannot be tolerated- unlike rice, the least toxic. So ‘food aid’ sent to many parts of the world is used only as animal feed. This is a distortion, but unlike feedlot grain, the farmers are paid human food prices for the aid input. Animal feed grain is lower in required quality and attracts a much lower price, all producers attempt to sell their grain into the human market, thus massive amounts of money are directed towards human ‘grain as food’ promotion. The most amazing marketing coup of recent times has been the promotion of the fibrous rubbish cover removed from grain before milling into flour, as human food. Formerly this material was sold to the makers of cardboard, but some marketing genius figured out that a ‘scientific study’ could be configured to show some kind of benefit from including this nourishing and intestine-irritating trash in food, thus permitting the sale of a cheap waste byproduct at food prices. ABSOLUTELY brilliant.

My figures are different, and I could not decipher the official mumbojumbo on the complex website referenced. No matter. I don’t really care what is done with ag products: I eat the way I do because it really works, and I have a bit of problem understanding why others seem to believe all sorts of thing that are published but manifestly do not work, especially in books, by doctors and dietitians. Some books are works of fiction, and all of those are not identified as such.

Everyone knows people who are suffer an allergy to toxic plant matter especially ‘whole wheat’ and peanuts- which together with rhubarb (oxalic acid) are very poisonous, and even is tolerant individuals are hard to digest. Spinach also contains quantities of oxalic acid, (a blood poison) but nor as much as rhubarb, the green leaves of which can kill if eaten.

Wheat is the major cereal grain of the west, however my remark on quantity used for animal food is total cereal grains. Actually more maize is used to feed pigs than wheat is fed to cattle. Incidentally, wild pigs are not fat, but are very lean, it is the forced feeding of food like corn and skim milk which cases domestic pigs to be so fatty.

My great uncle was a farmer in central KY. He raised Jersey cows and pigs. I remember seeing big glasses of dark yellow, raw milk in the fridge, with some extra added cream floating on top, 1/3 the whole. He separated the cream from milking his cows and sold it once a week to a local ice cream works, and fed the skim milk to the pigs. I asked him why he bothered to separate the cream, since he did not market it fresh and thus got a lower price for it (the buyers used soda to ‘sweeten’ it), and he said whole milk caused the pigs to not eat as much, and therefore they did not gain weight as quickly as he wanted, but skim milk had no such effect. The fat in whole milk, you see, satisfied them, and they stopped eating. Skim as well as low fat milk are perhaps the most fattening drinks you can find today, not very sweet-tasting thus leading to vast intakes (it is ‘fat free’, you see). So is sugar- fat free, that is.

Most cultivated vegetables are highly modified by selective breeding to remove the natural defense-toxins, so much so that tonnes of chemicals must be used to enable them to escape being eaten by ‘pests’.


Lisa: I think you have been misinformed. This is common amongst sufferers of diabetes- they use a lot of scare tactics.

I have had many blood tests and 90-120 mg/dl has been labelled as the normal fasting glucose level on the returned results. Type 2 diabetes is actually the result of your body resisting this nasty chemical. Diabetes is NOT a disease, you cannot catch it, and it is not found in any other animal on this planet- the only exception is humanity’s carnivorous pets if fed a grain based (dry) diet.

Real diabetes (type 1) is an auto-immune syndrome, wherein the person’s own immune system, responding to the somatic damage being done by insulin seeks out the source in the pancreas and destroys the cells producing it. The process leaves untouched the rest of the cells in that important organ. Glucose is a small, simple six-carbon molecule and does not need insulin to enter any of the cells of the body, but only special densely packed specialist cells like those in the brain actually consume glucose for energy and nutrition. Insulin’s primary function is to stimulate the uptake and conversion of glucose to fatty acids in the adipose cells, thus reducing hgh glucose levels after a carb-meal. Insulin is THE major cause of arterial sclerosis- by its ability to stimulate muscle-cell proliferation. This effect is especially bad for smooth muscle like is found in the intestines and arteries. The proliferative cells become scar tissue and that is what causes a loss of flexibility, and blockage of the lumen.

In a study titled ‘Atherosclerosis: An insulin-dependent disease?’ some interesting facts about the somatic effects of insulin were exposed. Surgically produced ‘diabetic’ dogs with no ability to produce insulin do not have any problem so long as no carbs are ingested. The study was done on such dogs, wherein they were catheterised in both femoral arteries and a solution of saline was applied by drip to both. A measured amount of insulin to balance their dietary carb intake was added to the saline only in one artery. After only six months the dogs were sacrificed and the arteries excised and studied. There was considerable pre-sclerotic growth found in the one supplied with the insulin solution, and none in the control artery. Hard to deny. The damage to skin collagen by glucose/insulin (stretch marks and wrinkles) is well known. Cataracts and joint damage are likewise long recognised as induced by insulin. The professional diabetes (medical) groups always refer to such damage as being caused by diabetes, which is not true. As noted, diabetes in NOT a disease. Remove dietary carbs and it literally disappears. This historic truth has been suppressed by the drug and medical professions.

I thought I had already covered this misconception: You CANNOT raise your blood glucose level above your normal fasting level by gluconeogenesis, no matter what. Gluconeogenesis cannot and will not even take place so long as there is enough fat intake, period. ‘Excess’ dietary protein is broken down and discarded, never converted to glucose except in an emergency- such as under heavy and extensive fasting- and then only after all the stored glycogen in liver and muscle has been converted first. The liver under these circumstances only produces from protein the exact amount necessary to maintain the normal level. Only dietary intake can drive the blood glucose level above your baseline.


Our local cream has ~1 gm/100 ml, so 2 l contains 20 gms. There are not 10 gms of total solids in three cups of my expresso (I grow, roast, grind and brew coffee- I have Rancilio and Conti machines), and the sugars have been caramelised by roasting. My vanilla extract label says it is 0 carb- I don’t buy the cheap stuff. Perhaps there may be ~30 gm total, but that is spread out over 3.5 litres of ice cream, or one gm per 125 ml. How close to zero do you want to go?


I love tongue- nice and fatty- and lamb’s brains. My mum fed us tongue sandwiches with mustard, and my granny used to serve scrambled brains and eggs- but she used calf brains, I like lamb better, just dipped in duck egg and fried. Duck egg sticks to things much better than chicken egg. I have never liked tripe or chitlins. Basically the only part of an animal I won’t eat is the hooves hair and bones.


I am sorry, Lisa, I mis-read the carton- I took the .9 gm/portion figure instead of 100ml- which is 3.1gm. Thus six cartons gives 45 gm which is close to your figure. Even the 60% cream lists carbs as 2.8, with sugars at 1.8.

I call my way zero-carb which is perhaps a bit misleading, as it is virtually impossible in the real world to eat no carbs at all and still have a decent array of food. Many animal-based foods have some small amount of carbs, and some like liver have a lot.. I judge zero-carb as attaining a level of 5gm/day or less. To be practical, zero is only a statement of the ideal.

I questioned only your contention that the level of dissolved solids in three 20 ml cups of coffee is 10 gm, and what portion of the total mix of extracted solids and oils would check out as sugars. By the way, the oils in fresh coffee seem to have an ability to stimulate insulin release. Not the caffeine, nor will defatted instant, only whole brewed coffee. I have had to stick to just one cuppa in the early morning, drat it.

Could it be that it was the flu which raised your blood sugar? Some sort of reaction by your immune system. So long as your body has retained any level of glycogen (the liver usually is about 40% glycogen, plus some is stored in muscles) you will not tear apart proteins for glucose- a simple and rapid enzymatic process cuts the the poly-sacccarhide glygocen into its constitutent mono-saccarhide units, i.e., glucose. Long, severe fasting is necessary for all glycogen to be depleted, not 48 hrs, let alone 24.


There are no ‘unique nutrients’ required for humans which can be found in vegetables. Humans live very well indeed on just muscle tissue with sufficient fat. This is a fact and is history, so all the conjecture and theorising in the world will not change it. If the body was able to create glucose on demand from ripping he core out of protein, then why is 100% protein so deadly it can kill you in about a week to ten days? Adding dietary fat or carbs prevents this poisoning. The fact is gluconeogenesis is rare except under two conditions, severe fasting and recovery from starvation-induced bodyfat depletion on a zero carb diet. Then the adipose tissues are re-built by diverting a small amount of blood sugar which stimulates mild gluconeogenesis.

The statement that glycogen is depleted in 3 days is simple nonsense, the liver holds a vast supply of glycogen and a person who is fully keto-adapted uses so little glucose that glycogen will last for a week or more. My glucose over 47 years has never varied from 100 mg/dl, I do not have mood changes, I am never hungry. My triglycerides are likewise low and stable. I have had blood tests almost monthly over the last few years due to my various problems with cancer etc.

The body does not need any carbs to replenish glycogen, it just does not happen rapidly, but slowly, like raising body fat to a ‘safe level’ after fasting- it works by gradual, small diversions of glucose. Muscle glycogen is NOT depleted by exercise, that has been proven in studies. I am tryong to locate my stash of metabolic papers, which seem to be hiding, I am not very organised, I am afraid.

The inherent proof, if any is needed, that we entered a period of heavy if not total carnivory millions of years ago is imbedded in the development of our huge brain, which required vast amounts of high energy density food intake to be able to afford development and requires similar amounts to maintain it. As most people know, we have a brain much larger for an animal of our size than is the norm. Gathering and eating vegetation does not take a lot of brain power so long as the animal has enough to be alert to predators and an instinct for avoidance behaviour- but predators do need good brains to stalk and outwit their prey.


Sorry, what exactly is meant by ‘optimum nutrition’? Sounds like diet-cult talk.

The accepted ‘level of (daily) requirement’ for all nutrients has been determined empirically, that is- by noting, describing and subsequently relieving the visible signs of deficiencies with supplements. By this criterion, my diet MUST therefore be more than simply ideal and have ‘optimum nutrition’. As has been proven over a period of 47 years in which my body has never shown any deficiencies whatsoever, or presented many of the normal sigs of aging. I seem to have only aged a fraction of the amount seen in my contemporaries. This is grade A long term empiricism.

Sydney is indeed the most beautiful city on the planet. I visit there a couple of times a year, but live 1500 miles north.

I really don’t have many unique recipes, I am what I call an ‘instinctive cook’- been at it since age 12, I don’t consult a cookbook and often combine things in new ways, especially spices. I do not usually keep track of my meals. I do almost all the cooking at home, my wife owns a store and it seems right to allow her freedom from this chore.

There is a spice genius here in Oz, Peter Watson. His Argentine Chimi Churi spice mix is brilliant with chicken, and his Cajun Blackened Spice is likewise excellent for fish. Lamb is superb with Ras el Hanout. Well worth the trouble of looking into if you like great spices and flavourings. I am a dedicated fan. My wife loves his Roasted Garlic and Chilli vinegarette for salads (she is not a strict follower of my dietary regime).

His contact info:

Rakey Watson Australia Pty Ltd +61 3 9417 0209

I am giving the phone # only, because I don’t think it is good practice to post anyone’s email address on the forum.


Glycogen is not depleted by exercise, period. The muscles ONLY use free fatty acids complexed with n-acetylcarnitine to provide the energy to reverse ADP to ATP, no carbs are consumed in this process, either as glucose or as glycogen.

The famous ‘wall’ hit by runners etc., indicates a problem in mobilising bodyfat in a carb-loading individual once dietary circulating fat is consumed. It does not occur in a keto-adapted meat eater.

Once more: My blood glucose level is normal and it has been that way for 47 years. Not ‘higher than average’- 100 mg/dl IS normal. If some people nowadays are testing lower, perhaps that is why there is so much depression around- I always feel great- no mood swings and have a very positive outlook on life. I would assume that anything termed ‘average’ is just that, the midpoint of a range of normalcy. Like the body fat level each person will normally maintain, it is not fixed, but varies over a small range. I have never sought to be or appear ‘average’- rather I like to be considered unique, at least in my art and my mentation. Let’s just add my rock-stable glucose level to this.

Google? Trust me- I am an expert on ‘rabbit starvation’.

The link to medbio.info produces a very conventional description of the way a person functions on a normal MIXED diet containing carbs. Unfortunately it is not valid for a zero- carb or very low carb regime. This should not come as a surprise, because medicine does not accept that anyone could (or would even want to) live on such a regime.


Optimum nutrition is exactly- what? You cannot make a valid statement in assertion without an antecedent for the word ‘that’. Bad grammar. What all we strive for? this is not a definition, it is a statement of ideal without defining the ideal in question. I mentioned my physical condition at 71, compared to my contemporaries- which indicates far more than just following a bare minimum of nutrition to avoid deficiency diseases. The entire human population on a ‘normal diet’ may validly be considered the ‘controls’.

You have to do better in your arguments than you have so far, if you want me to take what you say seriously.

I am very much interested in meeting ANY individual who has remained on a zero-carb regime for 47 years, or for that matter, even for 10 years. The lack of additional data does not mean that my data is not valid.

Underfeeding has been shown to enhance longevity. Keep that in mind when considering people who survive into extreme old age.


I guess in the US organ meats (called ‘offal’ here) must have something of a premium-food reputation. I recently bought a calve’s tongue and it was $6.95/kg, at the time porterhouse was $21.90. Liver is usually $4, kidneys about the same. All these items are always significantly cheaper than any cut of steak. For some weird reason lamb is today priced above beef, whereas 15 years ago it was less than 1/3 the price.


I guess we must agree to disagree, Lisa. I am not here to do battle over fondly held belief systems, just to share what has proven to work in my life.

I am not a scientist, I am an artist, so I give very little credence to most of the published research in diet as well as in other fields, as much of it has been shown to be faked.

For annotated examples of this widespread practice, please read “The Cholesterol Myths’ by Uffe Ravnskov or visit the website www.thincs.org


I am searching for my collection of metabolic studies, but so far it has eluded me. Two studies relate to energy source and exercise, both were done with lab rats. One shows by muscle biopsy/analysis that the glycogen in muscle tissue does not vary with exercise, whether anaerobic or anaerobic. The other shows massive gains in endurance over a sufficiently long period of adaptation to a zero carb diet. This study is one of the very few to use a true zero carb diet against a normal rat-chow control in a test.

If lack of insulin will kill type 1 diabetics on a zero carb diet, then how do you explain all the cases in the literature from the pre-insulin period which confirm that removing carbs from the diet caused the sugar to leave the urine, and permitted the person to live a normal life. I first read about this in Macarness- Eat Fat and Grow Slim, however later on I found some other old texts which confirm this diet was a successful treatment. The medical profession in conjunction with the drug manufacturers do not want you to believe you can ever give up using insulin if you are type 1. But- by all means follow your own path. I have yet to meet a type 1 who was open to even considering not taking insulin, they were all scared shitless by their doctors. So I will merely mention it. Check it out if you like. Insulin is a fairly recent drug.


paleodeano- yes- it is myth.


Weight training- yes, it has been 16 years now as of Jan. I began lifting on my birthday at age 55. I ride my mountain bike on a very hilly dirt track for about 30-45 minutes before each workout. The aerobics session immediately prior to lifting gets every warmed up and functioning, and brings the liver online with the enzymes needed by the muscles for optimal activity-muscle cells do not make them, and do not store them in the quantity needed by strenuous exercise.

I lift heavy. I am not very large but I’m as strong as many of the big boys I see in the gym. I basically follow Mike Mentzer’s ‘heavy duty': brief, infrequent sessions with only few exercises to failure, I do 3 sets of one exercise per body part and divide into a legs/bi’s/tri’s day and an upper body day (no bi or tri specifics). I lift two days a week only- rest days need to be at least two between workouts. I do crunches and hypers each work out. I gained over 30 pounds of solid muscle in less than three years when I began- probably my genetic limit, as although the shapes of my muscles changed a bit over time, I did not continue to gain mass.

(Sorry frederick)- I have already noticed that you are definitely a carb addict- glycogen is never used as a fuel for exercise- the muscles burn only fat). Glycogen is stored around the body and is used as a fast resource when blood sugar drops- since glucose is not consumed by skeletal muscles it remains in the tissues. I am still searching for the papers I collected verifying this.

Carbs before a workout will reduce your energy- although some people will have a kind of ‘boost’ from the sudden insulin rush. The muscles run on fat, and once the body starts to store the glucose as fat, it interferes with energy and strength. Carbs weaken you by initiating fat storage activity just when your muscles need the fat for power.

In my 20’s I was a ballet student and finally a pro dancer. I discovered the all meat diet shortly after beginning my dance training. My energy and height in jumps almost doubled when I adopted the all meat diet. Endurance on a zero carb regime goes right through the roof. I followed ballet, modern and jazz intensely for over 6 years, abandoning it finally after finding a dancer’s pay was just not enough to live very well on, with classes every day, and new shoes every 6 weeks, plus eat a lot since you burn a tremendous amount of calories- dancing is extremely strenuous. The rest goes to rent. I could not afford a car and used a ten speed bike to get around LA. I still love to dance. That was what was so good about working for the Grateful Dead- they were a great band to dance to.

The reason carbs are promoted so vigorously in the magazines, thus in forums, is due to the publishers financial interests- they are all manufacturers of ‘supplements’ which are always carb-based sugar and starch being far cheaper than protein. The supplements are very profitable and most of them are just rubbish.

Carbs will actually interfere with muscle growth, whereas dietary fat seems to stimulate muscle growth. Vince Gironda fed his clients power drinks based on heavy cream, Arnold Swartzenegger was one of his pupils Fat is very important for energy and for building muscle tissue. In one of my posts I mention my boxing team’s practice right before a match of eating a rare steak with fat.

I love my one morning cup of coffee- but not black. I found some time ago that a couple of tablespoons of heavy cream diluted with water will froth up like milk and makes a delicious cappuccino


I have stated my blood glucose levels in terms understood in the US, where the other forum correspondents live. I am not in the UK, but in Oz. Yes, we use the metric system here as does the entire world- except only the USA.

‘Standards’ are really just estimates and guesswork, and change all the time- usually going down (except for lead). For example the ‘preferred’ level of blood cholesterol has now been taken to a level which makes 90% of the world’s population test over the accepted level- thereby ‘needing medication’.

That this has to be drug company nonsense is not understood by people who are addicted to believing in authorities and ‘standards’.

That the data shows the ‘preferred level’ of cholesterol dramatically increases death from all causes is conveniently ignored, even though the same data shows only a statistically insignificant reduction in heart attacks. (www.thincs.org). In addition, the horrible side effects of the statins are downplayed.

The same thing is found in the choice of the ‘normal’ blood sugar level- it is not simply the observed average of normal people, that is why it has slowly dropped. Not that it really matters, I am not diabetic, and no one in my family has ever been diabetic, in spite of our propensity to obesity. So what is really meant by all this?

I have tested all my contentions over a very long period of time. Most research studies are not done over a long enough time scale to really verify or confirm the results…


Any type 1 diabetic who is not monitoring their glucose level frequently during the day with today’s simple technology would themselves be abnormal. Even an ‘uneducated kid’ would have to know this basic routine is highly imperative…

Such monitoring will immediately reveal whether my suggestions are valid or not- unconfirmed contentions to the contrary.

What I think we have here is just a bold attempt to find verification from others that a person’s tightly held belief system is true and correct by quickly rejecting all contrary information. I think this is quite normal for believers of any sort, but since I have not tried to address my self strictly to diabetics, but rather to those who are interested in finding away out of obesity and ill health through diet, it seems a bit extreme to constantly be harping on perceived ‘inaccuracies’. Sort of like feeling an obligation to play the cop.

If the intent of these posts is to somehow convince me to change my tested knowledge structure, it is not going to be effective. If I responded to other people’s proffered ‘wisdom’, my foray into the zero carb diet would not have lasted a year.


Hmm: Is this thread now to become a diabetes thread?

This was never my intention. Sorry to disappoint, but please, let’s stay on the path I initiated rather than getting sidetracked into arguing about immune system disorders and dangerous syndromes which are not a problem for most people, who are merely looking for a way to have and maintain a normal body-shape and size configuration… ok?

I am sure there are many threads around devoted to diabetes.


I lift at a normal rate. But only do three sets of one exercise per body part. Time spent lifting should only be about 45-60 min.

Absolutely- vigorous exercise is essential for good health as a human. Lions lazy? That is a novel concept. True, they don’t run around much if well-filled with meat after a successful hunt, but they, and all carnivores spend a lot of time travelling and searching for prey, then have to be able to run fast and grab hard, fighting with their prey- most animals do not like to be eaten and put up a hell of a fight. The males do a lot of fighting with other males and have to stay strong, or lose their harem- the old saw about the males not hunting is also, alas, false- they always pitch in when a large animal is targeted. Otherwise only a few of the females in the pride involve themselves in each episode of stalking and killing. The A(ustralian)BC and BBC have produced some excellent programs on various carnivores, many narrated by David Attenborough- and in Oz at least they can be bought on DVD- if any one is interested in following up.

The common domestic tabby sleeps a lot, which may be why they live so much longer than dogs, who run around a lot. We are the same, even most modern hunters walk long distances carrying heavy stuff, and then return with the meat. Besides, heavy exercise makes you feel terrific!

The best thing to help stay zero is to never bring anything you don’t want eat home and put away in the fridge or pantry. Likewise any roommates or partners need to follow this. I no long need any such support, lucky too, as my wife eats a lot of what I consider rubbish. It never looks the least bit edible. In my first years I had problems, so I always asked to have the bread taken always at a restaurant and the veggies left in the kitchen, ‘just a plain blood rare steak, with all the fat left on it, please’. I also got the munchies smoking pot, but dealt with it with home made jerky and cheese. I no longer get the munchies, ever- although I do not understand why not.

I did not like most veggies as a kid, true- but I learned to eat most of them as teenager (never could understand how ANYONE could eat a turnip). Through all of this discussion, I have never claimed I did not miss a lot of vegetation that I had learned to eat on starting to eat this way. I did. For years. But I think the turning point came one day when a nicely made salad or dish in a Japanese sushi bar (caution: only eat the sashimi) restaurant looked like a flower arrangement, very pretty but nothing I was interested in eating…

I love raw meat, it tastes great, I only sear the outside to kill anything growing on the cut surface- admittedly, cooking adds a nice, unique flavour also. I prefer to buy large 4-5 kg blocks of meat in cryovac, cutting portions off as I go, keeping the bag closed in the fridge- best temp setting is 2C. Please be aware that fresh red meat is not compatible in the same fridge with raw chicken or fish- both can (and will) cause the meat to spoil quickly. I have four fridges on the property. One is just for meat (and cream).

The three small ones run on 12v, the big one is 240v. Our electricity is generated here from solar and wind, with a diesel back-up. We use 12v DC- legacy of het early days, some lights and the fridges, 24 vDC for the inverter, 120v and 240v/60 Hz AC for everything else. Anything which is made to run on 50 Hz does better on 60. Not the other way around, however. My shop and studio- with kilns and welders, etc need the 9kw Onan genset running.

Two of my collection of rare and endangered papers have turned up.

‘Adventures in Diet’ by Vilhjalmur Stefansson -in 3 parts- was published serially in Harper’s Monthly- I don’t know the date of publication, the dates are not on my photocopies. He covers in detail the year-long meat-only dietary study undertaken by himself and Karsten Anderson under the supervision of the Russell Sage Institute of Pathology at Bellevue Hospital in NYC, in 1928.

The other one is from the Journal of the American College of Nutrition 5:417-427 (1986); ‘Atherosclerosis: An Insulin-Dependent Disease? Contains 60 references at the end.

These were spare copies, I still have not located my main collection of metabolic studies.


Did I mention that you must never work out without sufficient days off? At least one day minimum in between workouts and the best is two to three. A proper workout micro-damages tissues, and uses up your store of energy reserves- this is what stimulates you to grow stronger/bigger. The day after a workout is used up just restoring you to the state you were in before the last workout, plus maybe part of the next day as well, if you are an advanced trainer and just increased your work load. The second day of (total) rest is when you will gain. You need only work each muscle once a week. A cycle of two and three days off is ideal in most cases. This equals twice a week in the gym. Trust me, I began at 55 and it was a hard go until I had tested all the (misinfo) and found out the truth.

I was even told that it was impossible to gain muscle mass after age 40- by an MD, no less. He did not recognise me a few years later, and was blown away by my new mass. The awful thing was, after spending a considerable amount of time first-off telling me my diet was (nuts) and I was wasting time at my age lifting, he had grown obese. Funny how the truth will out.


On the contrary, eating only meat is great, in fact just eating nothing but NY sirloin steaks for several MONTHS exclusively leads to each one tasting even better than the last (been there, done that). Vegetables ARE boring- tasteless (or slightly bad) for the most part, requiring a dose of spices to make them palatable, and the idea you need a lot of variety at mealtime comes strictly from having learned to eat them.

You see, the body just LOVES the taste of fresh rare (or raw) meat, it’s your mind which develops the idea that meals are a form of entertainment and must be changed all the time- A meal of nice, fatty meat is not like a movie- it will bear constant repetition very well indeed. I do rotate meats, not for myself so much as for my reduced carb, mixed-diet wife- I generally do all the cooking.

I don’t generally eat before training, although the ‘steak plain’ that my boxing coach gave us an hour before a match would suit. There is never any ‘need’ for carbs. Carbs are a no-no at all times and under all circumstances, they are a ‘poison’- why eat poison? I eat three times a day, not because I am hungry but because I think that is a good number of times to eat. I generally do eat after my exercise, but it is not a fixed routine. I have said earlier that I eat meat/fat, any kind- including eggs butter and cream. I have no specifics on menus, whatever is easy.

Thanks for the link to Stef’s articles, I wish someone had OCR’d and posted his book, The Fat Of The Land. I have a copy and also a master photocopy made from it which I have used to make further copies, but a digital version would be very desirable.
I may still have (somewhere) the letter Stef wrote to me shortly years before his death in 1962, in reply to a letter I wrote to him describing my early experiences in following my all meat dietary regime.

Lions have a simple way to open skulls, they crush them with their jaws.- Mostly they just eat the liver, tongue and skeletal muscles, the rest is scavenged by hyenas and vultures, of course hyenas also have NO problems opening skulls.

I still don’t understand how the ‘saturated fat is bad for you’ idea ever came along- since we store energy in exactly that format. It should not take the wits of a rocket scientist to deduct that we must be optimised to burn it.

I have come to the conclusion that 5 gm/day is about as close as one can get to ‘zero-carbs’. It works very well.

I finally found one stash of articles, not all. I failed to note a few dates on the photocopies of some magazine articles:

‘What’s the best fuel for muscles?’ Jeff Everson- interview With Greg Ellis- Weider’s Muscle and Fitness mag, May, not the year.
‘Body Fat’ by Vincent P Dole, Scientific American, didn’t mark the year/month- unfortunate, it has very important information on the fat tissues.

‘Dietary hyperphagia in Rats: Role of Fat, Carbohydrate, and Energy Content. Israel Ramirez and mark L Friedman, Physiology & Behavior, June 1990.

‘Regulation of Hepatic Fatty Acids Oxidation and Ketone Boldy Production’ J D McGarry and D W Foster, Ann. Rev. Biochem 1980 49:395-420.

This batch is not complete, there are several more papers here- somewhere. I am still searching.


I have followed my dietary path for 47 years, it is as natural as breathing now (but it wasn’t always). Be sure to eat plenty of fat.

No one is born with a ‘taste’ for any kind of food- everything is learned, so if you ‘crave’ veggies or fruit, it is your social *mind* at work, your *body* does not ‘crave’ non-meat foods.

What is this ‘induction’ thing?

Thaw? I would never, ever freeze raw meat! Or buy it already frozen. Why bother, since it will keep at 2C literally for weeks. If bought in bulk, cryovac’d, it will keep for months- it gets ever more tender as it ages (enzymatic action).

Sausages can be frozen with little obvious damage. Some fish do not suffer much, others are destroyed- but chicken and all red meat is badly damaged by cell fracture by freezing- the texture and taste goes off. Cooked food can be frozen without much drama. I will drive for two or three hours if necessary just to buy fresh, never frozen fish and chicken. I think it is best to keep freezing restricted to ice cream.

By rest I mean, normal tasks are ok, but no running or lifting. If you are on a zero carb diet, your body runs on the same mix all the time anyway, so eat if you feel like it. Perhaps if you are heavy into gaining mass, you might want to rush out scarf food after you finished the workout- just be sure to allow enough time for the pump to subside and the body to cool down- eating diverts the blood to the intestines, away from the muscles- I don’t know, but that may not be the best thing to do right away.

Don’t follow ANYTHING you read in the bodybuilding mags concerning food and supplements, it is all a load of rubbish. Even the oft-repeated suggestion you need lots of different exercises to ‘properly’ build mass in each body part- it is just a way of getting you to read the magazine so you can ‘learn how the pro’s do it’. I can tell you exactly how the pros do it- take lots of anabolic steroids. The real ‘genetic’ champs actually just have a good genetic resistance to the various kinds of problems high doses of these drugs cause the body. Choose an exercise you like for each part and change it if you feel like it like from time to time, but it will not increase your progress to do so, just give you something different to do in the gym. Of course, you must learn the correct form and strictly follow it for any exercise you do. I prefer free weights, which I have at home (a complete well-built and equipped gym, in fact), and when home I rarely use my own machines, but when in a commercial gym, I may try various things out for a change of pace, while still confining myself to just one exercise per part.

Fat is very filling, don’t worry, you won’t eat too much.


No headaches normally- perhaps with a cold or flu, but I have not suffered from either in many years, even after what must have been severe damage to my immune system from the cancer therapy. I highly recommend getting a yearly flu shot.

Atkins sucks. I said that 30 years ago when his book first appeared. He modified the real truth,(assuming he ever knew it) so his diet would be acceptable to normal, veggie-habituated people. In a small number of cases it sort of works, after a fashion- for a while.

3 cups of vegetables? Really? What nonsense!

Avoid all veggie oils, none of them except palm, coconut and small amounts of macadamia are ‘good’. Olive and the rest are really really BAD. Avoid commercial mayo, all of which is made with either sunflower, safflower or canola, and is very salty. Eat as much animal fat as you like, plus as much as you like of any and all kinds of meat, fish and poultry. heavy cream has some carbs, so go easy. You should try to reach and stay at 5 gm carbs/day for optimum results. The only physical bit concerning eating sugar and flour is a weird kind of addiction to the insulin ‘rush’ which apparently is something like the rush that a junky or meth freak gets on taking their drug. I wager you fall asleep after such indulgence. In other words, you are addicted to the result of eating the carbs not to the carbs themselves. You eat things because you were taught as a baby to do so. It is mental, not physical (except as noted).

My teeth, yes. I have all my teeth, basically including the ‘wisdoms’. One first molar broke in half a few years ago, perhaps after one of my inlays came loose and a dentist replaced it without properly removing all the old cement. That one was replaced with a crown on an implant. All the rest are fine. I have had no caries at all since 1957. My teeth have very little wear, and are still so sharp I can still make my cheek or tongue bleed every so often when I manage to bite myself.

Before age 23, I managed to get cavities in all my molars (bread), including my wisdoms. I suffered from chronic mercury poisoning from the el cheapo amalgam fillings put in my mouth as a kid until I had all of them removed in the ’70’s and replaced with gold inlays. Bad restorations in amalgam have led to a couple of root canals. I do not expect to ever have any teeth lost. I refused to have my teeth removed for radiation therapy, in spite if dread warnings of the consequences of caries- I just laughed, since I don’t HAVE any caries and will never have any. In any event, even with no saliva my teeth are maintaining themselves perfectly. I brush once a day, at night.

My current very excellent dentist likes to see me every few months since the radiation, but there has been no change at all. Before that I only went in when I had an event, like an inlay coming adrift. My amalgam replacement 30 years ago was done by an old timer, old fashioned restorational dentist, a regular ‘tooth artist’, who did everything himself, but he used the old style cement, which is slowly coming loose, necessitating the occasional refitting.


Sorry, I did not mean to step on your belief system.

My dietary path is truly ‘low carb’, in fact it is as low as I can take it. Some don’t need that, which is fine by me. Some do.

I have not ‘slammed every other plan out there’ (odd turn of phrase), I simply and honestly stated my opinion on Atkins- no one else. I think it is perhaps stretching things a bit to claim that going even lower in carbs could ‘derail’ anyone. In truth it would only enhance their progress. I never said I expected anyone to adapt my path, in fact, any who try to do so will succeed only because of great will power.

Why would anyone whose dietary plan is doing exactly what they wanted, need to change anything? I am here because plans like Atkins promoted emphatically did not work for me and I thought others might benefit from my real life experiences.

I have had lots of correspondents who have written to me and told me they tried Atkins and it did not work. Some said it worked for a while then stopped.

Other sources I have read have substantiated that only a few select people can benefit from following his rather high recommended carb intakes (up to 100 gm/day). My opinion is just that he crafted his diet to appeal to the wider population of people who were habituated to eating vegetation, and a simple comparison of his earliest book (which I read with great anticipation on its appearance) and the latest one bears up this analysis- the later one goes into veggies even further.

After al the time which has passed, I am used to being accused of stepping on sacred cows so far as diet and nutrition are concerned. If any of you are in love with Atkins, and do well on it, that’s great, and I respect that, but I still personally think his approach is flawed. I do not look at diet and dietary gurus as special or sacrosanct.

I can only attest to what does and does not work for me and verify that I have never ever had my path fail any person who took it up and stuck to it, no matter how obese they were, nor what kind of failures they experienced on other regimes.

I cannot find any evidence that vegetables, any vegetables- have anything ‘good’ about them. Certainly the salient thing they all do have is the ability to put a load on your body to deal with them. There are NO nutrients missing from a meat diet- provided the meat is not cooked much.

Get all that mercury out, asap. You will be completely amazed how your health, mental attitude and memory will improve, and quickly too. Expect to have the dentist find new damage beneath the amalgam, which is porous and allows bacteria to penetrate under it. Amalgam is 50-52% mercury, about 35% silver and 15% tin. The mercury slowly evaporates and is slightly soluble. It forms organic compounds which are truly toxic.

I do not know of any meat processors who freeze any of their meat other than liver, which the USDA and similar authorities require to be frozen before sale. Most organ meat is frozen due to the small market for it. A good supplier can get the fresh. It is not necessary to freeze meat unless there is no other way to keep it and it will not be used for six months or more. Meat once frozen is damaged in quality, taste and texture, it leaks fluid, and is unctuous. As to damage to nutrition, I don’t know, but I do know unless cooked into a flavoured gruel such as chilli con carne, it tastes so strongly I can tell in a mouthful that it has been frozen. Even in appearance, you can tell. It takes on a weird kind of translucence. Chicken loses its succulent tasty softness and gets toughened up.

The only US fish which have parasites (broad fish tapeworm) are the fresh water fish in the Great Lakes region- it is common in parts of Europe. There are only a few fish in salt water which harbour parasite which can effect humans- the wild salmon of the pacific coast can carry the larvae of a seal-specific parasite which, if eaten raw may cause what is called the ‘sushi-worm syndrome’, it will not colonise us, but chews on the stomach a bit and eventually dies- I have had it, very uncomfortable (I made sashimi from fresh salmon I caught- qualified Japanese sushi chefs are trained to find and remove it from the fish). But- even light cooking will destroy any fish-borne parasite. You have to eat it raw to have a problem.


Could it be those 3 cups of veggies that gave you 11 pounds?


I guess echinacea is a vegetable, after all- that is one seems to help one’s immune system. But I don’t think you should eat it in dietary quantities. All the great medicines and psychic activators come from vegetables of one kind or another. That is the great gift to mankind from the plant kingdom. Medicines and shamanic sacraments…Not food.


“…increase their veggie intake.” Truly amazing. I don’t understand this of course, it sounds like water running up hill to me. I wonder what other changes were involved, both before and after getting ‘stalled’.

I have only had 47 years of interest and experience in low carb diet regimes and their results, in this relatively short time span I may have missed something important about vegetables.


I am looking for the study on non-depletion of glycogen with exercise. This study specifically showed no reduction in glycogen after intense exercise- that contention proved to be only an assumption, not based on data. The effect of ‘hitting a wall’ known to runners is due to carb loading and the accompanying reduction in endurance. Another study in the batch I have not located shows a tripling or more of exercise endurance in rats fed a zero carb diet versus those fed a normal rat-chow diet. Glycogen storage is stable in a person with sufficient fat intake.

Look, I am really not interested in going around and around about one person’s fixation on diabetes etc. I am not a diabetic, which is not really a disease, but the result of consuming a high carb diet 24/7. I merely mentioned the lack of a need in a carnivore’s body for insulin- in passing. As soon as I find the papers I will post the references. Runners who are fully keto-adapted burn fat from the first step they take and do not ‘shift gears’. I assume many here know about Greg Ellis’ work on low carbs and exercise. He sent me many of the metabolic papers I have. He is about as dedicated to this path as I am, but is not nearly as strict. Keto-adaptation on zero carbs should be complete in 3-4 weeks.

The truth about exercise is that muscles NEVER use carbs as fuel, only fat, so the process of ‘burning carbs is only the process of converting them into fat, which puts a severe load on the body during exercise- eliminate the carbs and endurance skyrockets. (At the risk of offending a few, I must say that Atkins -conventional- contention about burning carbs for fuel is false, like many of his ideas. The rats in the paper I mentioned were tested by having them swim. They were trained and conditioned for a long time during he study, of course. Those on a standard diet never were able to swim much longer than a few hours, but the ones on the true zero carb high fat diet were still swimming after eight hours and the experimenter had to end the session- no telling how long they might have gone on. Thus marathoners and long distance bike riders are severely limiting themselves by carb loading.

High octane? Hardly.

Glycogen/glucose equal 4 cal/gm. Fat is 9 cal/gm. Alcohol is 7, and interferes with enzyme production in the liver. Glycogen is only used as a quick source of glucose to stabilise blood glucose and normally remains stable in the body. Only the brain and a few other tissues need or use any glucose, it is NOT an ‘energy source’ for skeletal muscles. Don’t fret, I have the papers to support all this, and I hope they turn up soon. By the way, the conversion of glucose to fat is inefficient in calorie terms, it produces some heat as waste, about 0.5 to 1 cal worth. Thus, a sweet cool summer drink will actually heat your body, not cool it.

Rapid intense effort (anaerobic) uses ATP, which degrades with muscular contraction into ADP. ADP is reconverted into ATP by a mechanism fueled by fatty acids complexed with n-acetyl carnitine. No carbohydrate is involved. Aerobic activity is fueled the same way.

Why does it feel like I am going over the same ground again? Perhaps a few people have not read all my posts.

One ounce (~30gm) of pecans would have about 10-15 gms of carbohydrates, not 1 not 3. Nuts of all kinds are all nearly half or more carbs- the rest is vegetable oils and some plant protein. They are hard to digest, as well. Nuts are just energy-dense seeds, and seeds must have carbs to sprout.

No, my wife does not eat bread or any sugar, and only very small amounts of pasta- once in a while- or rice. Mostly she eats salads, and a few fruits (we live in the tropics after all). I would say not quite low carb, but very moderate. As noted, it is social conditioning that counts most in what we eat. I encourage her to reduce the carbs, and it is happening slowly. She was a practicing vegetarian when we met 21 years ago, but that did not last past our first dinner date. She asked for a bite of my steak, actually.

…The following is just my opinion, remember- you can be trained young to eat anything, and will then ‘love’ it. For example, Vegemite, a heavy, very salty, strong tasting concentrated yeast paste- a byproduct of the brewing industry, is eaten by Aussie kids (and adults), like the Yanks eat jam- on toast… Turnips taste, for lack of a better word, nasty- (along with mustard, collard and kale greens, and the cabbage family). I always wondered how they were ever considered edible in the first place- near starvation, I guess. Conditioning rules the palate.


Bathroom problems? You should not have this problem, you must be doing something wrong. The carnivore’s diet totally eliminates constipation. I am never constipated unless I must take an opiate like codeine (tramadol is better- and not constipating) or eat too much cheese.

You cannot eat ‘straight protein’- it is more than constipating, it is dangerously toxic. Dietary protein content should never go above 40 or so percent and 20% is quite a good percentage, even for a bodybuilder. The diet should include 60-80% fat. Calling any workable diet ‘high protein’ is misleading.

Coffee in excess can cause a loose bowel, and cheese, which is mostly casein (the basis for library paste) is VERY binding. Try increasing fat and lowering protein and cheese, or add coffee.

A ‘protein shake’ should be based on heavy cream. My first meal is 60 ml cream, 10 ml water, with three heaping tablespoons of protein powder (90% calcium caseinate, 6% ion exchange whey, 4% egg albumin). I buy all the ingredients in bulk and make up the mixture myself, as all the commercial mixes suck (it is way cheaper this way, too)- either they have soy in them, carbs, or way too much of some cloying synthetic sweetener, or they lack caseinate and thus are too quickly metabolised, thus ineffective. Whey is used up very rapidly- casein lasts for hours. Egg white balances the amino acid profile.


Goat is better than lamb


How much fat do you eat?


The Krebs cycle is simply a description of the conversion path from glucose to fat, and not a metabolic energy source. Some of us genetic-obese may have difficulty in the step- oxidation of pyruvic acid- Macarness thought so.


Good, try my suggestion on coffee- I llke it with cream.

Basically, you should not suffer constipation on a zerocarb regime with a good balance of fat. Even Stefansson noted this.


MIlk is very carby (~10%) and can be constipating due to the casein, which turns into hard curd (cheese like) in an adult’s stomach- perhaps this is your problem. Try making your shakes with diluted heavy cream instead.


Been down to sealevel yesterday to see the ear doc, so this is a long one-

Right- full cream milk here is 4.8gm / 100 ml. Must have been thinking fortified skim or something.

I don’t weigh, measure or worry about the amounts I eat, whether it be protein or fat. I eat fat first if I can, until it feels right, and then lean till I feel satisfied. I don’t eat anything like as much as I did in my 20’s and 30’s.

It is quite normal for ignorant people to claim that any diet other than the high carb, high veg one they learned from mum is ‘unhealthy’. I doubt anyone would even consider the right diet unless they personally are having great difficulty with bodyfat. Those who are lucky in the genetic sweepstakes are fixed in what the consider is good nutrition. This has been my experience with literally thousands of people who I have told about my lifestyle over the very lengthy period I have been living it. So, deal with diet at your own space and forget about what happens elsewhere- normal weight people never accept our ways- even many of the obese have a hard time with it.

I like coconut cream, but it varies from brand to brand- the best is >30’% fat, no carbs. This lovely fatty stuff is very sensitive to heat, and turns to oil very quickly- you just can’t heat it at all- add it last. I does not work in ice cream- it turns the whole thing to grease (butter?) as it is churned.

I live where the macadamia is native. We buy it in a 10 litre package from the mac oil extracting mob here in Queensland, it lasts us a year at least- cost: ~A$8/litre.

Generally in families where the meat is well-cooked, people do not like meat much, and do not eat very little of it.

I feel I am repeating some things over and over: The muscles do not, and cannot ‘burn’ glucose OR glycogen. The ONLY fuel the body uses is fat to run the muscle’s contractions. Eating carbs interferes with fat metabolism, so keto-adaptation removes this problem- the ‘wall’.

The body does do a bit of glucose-making to stabilise glycogen/glucose when needed, just as it will if you are below your native ‘fatostat’ setting, say you have dropped to around 5%, like a competing body builder- to say at that low fat level requires exact matching of caloric intake to calories burned, coupled with exercise. It is important the the diet supply sufficient protein, of course to spare incorporated protein. In dealing with protein in the muscles etc, one should be aware that the body is constantly breaking down and rebuilding the various protein structures anyway- like a mad mob of tiny housebuilders who dismantle the brick walls and pass the bricks around, rebuilding them as fast as they are taken apart- I have no idea why, but this is how it works. I think this is why you lose muscle mass you gain from exercising, if you don’t continue to exercise. The body is very conservative relative to carrying mass, and does not maintain structures like muscle size and strength at levels beyond perceived current ‘need’.

I mentioned that I have a paper (somewhere) which pouts to rest the idea that glycogen is used for energy.

I am carb free, I exercise anaerobically by lifting weights. I NEVER get sore muscles the next day- or the day after unless I am forcing a severe weight overload, which causes more severe micro damage to the muscles, and some second-day soreness. So there’s the ‘practical’ proof that glycogen does not deplete with exercise.

Blood triglyceride is an ester, not a sugar. By further oxidation, one-half of a molecule of glucose can be derived from the glycerol moiety, but this tri-hydroxy alcohol represents only a very small percentage of the mass of the triglyceride molecule.

I take three or four ex-large eggs -very soft- with each meal, plus ~60 gm of camembert or brie. It makes the texture of the meat component easier to swallow.

My blood triglyceride level is always at the low end of ‘normal’.

People ‘eat that stuff’ because their family ate them, and they were persistently fed them as babies until they accepted them as food.

I have never said I do not ‘like’ the usual vegetables people consider food, I learned to eat everything but turnips as a teen (thus my coronary problem). However I gave them away once I learned they are not good food for my body, full stop. I don’t even think about them any more. People who wax eloquent about the rapture of eating various veggies are simply showing how very deep running their social conditioning is- to the point it has completely swamped any trace of instinct- instinct is why kids spit out veggies and make a face… People in this category never remain on a strict low to zero carb regime for very long, at least that has been my experience with a large number of ‘attemptees’. Their mental state prevents it.

People who eat fibrous things should be aware of the damage this kind of rough, scratchy material does long term to the lining of the small intestine- It irritates it and causes a kind of ‘callous’ to form, which reduces the ability to extract nourishment from the chyme as it passes through.

Goat, like mutton is tough, kid is not, it is as soft and succulent as lamb…

Meat is not boring to a carnivore, only to a mixed-dieter, to whom all foods are quickly ‘boring’.

Carnivores love each and every meal and eat to be nourished, not to be ‘entertained’. The low level of gastronomic attraction of vegetables requires a lot of spice and theatre to keep you eating.

No amount of talk or sight of veggies/fruit makes the slightest impact on me- but then, I have had a lot of practice. I have successfully overcome my acculturation, a very unusual thing.

What indeed, did I start, dietary heretic that I am.

Other than as a guide to our lengthy period of evolution under a carnivorous lifestyle, resulting is the loss of tolerance for diet with a high carb/vegetable content, the actual diet of paleolithic people is not really of much value to us in today’s modern world. Most of the animals they hunted for food are extinct, and we really do not have any solid data on what they may have consumed but did not bring home.


It behooves late comers to this 500+ posting thread to go back and read the entire thing before putting their foot in a bucket. Virtually every thing used in attack has been answered thoroughly already. Some recaps below:

I have studies which show that NO dietary fat enters the adipose tissues- the study was based on radioisotope uptake, and showed the only adipose radioactivity resulted from the incorporation of tagged glucose. None was found inside the cells from tagged fatty acids/triglycerides. It is impossible for fat to pass across the adipose cell wall, there simply is no mechanism. In order to release stored fat, the adipose cell’s wall ruptures and releases the fat directly, afterwards healing. This microscopic rupture is detected as a vague discomfort commonly felt by dieters, and is relieved by eating, especially a carb meal. The fat into storage, an ancient unsupported contention- is false, the body cannot and does not store dietary fat, it must circulate until consumed as fuel.

I am used to a near violent rejection of my words like this, it is more common than you might think, and almost always is full of diet-myth and nonsense. I am not telling anyone how or what to eat and I have made that manifestly clear in my posts, I am simply offering my 47 years of experience in following this path- what you eat and what you think about eating is not subject to your conscious mind’s control. In time, and with great effort you may come to accept it, but your ‘gut’ will not usually completely give up your social dietary conditioning. Some people are so threatened by any assertion that their mum was wrong in what she gave them as a babe and told them was right to eat, that they become agitated, illogical and confused. Sorry about that.

My writings are just an example of what I have discovered in a long time period of reading, thinking and communicating with others. I did not understand for years why no one was able to follow me- I finally figured out the social conditioning aspect and it fully explained everything I have encountered. Attempts to belittle my information or drag me into an argument are doomed to failure, as I have no doubt of any kind about what I have written here as well as on my website.

The totally frivolous and illogical statement that my diet may not be the raison d’etre of my excellent health is like saying that my strength and muscularity may not be due to my spending many years lifting heavy weights in the gym. Right. And I do not like it when people who are not even up on what I have been up to in my thread, come in like gangbusters- to criticise and attempt to lecture me. Don’t get into the shallow place of suggesting ‘perhaps this, perhaps that’ Especially; what is this nonsense about ‘importance of water’- I drink up to four litres a day- I bet the writer does not.

If pigs had wings-or did not cleverly hide them from us, perhaps they might fly. Thus the fact that none have been seen to do so does not mean they can’t???.

I have only told in this thread about the true state and origin of my diet and its long term overall effect on me, my body and and my health, I have vast experience with friends and acquaintances who are vegans, vegetarians and mixed diet eaters- trust me, they all are, and this in includes some half my age, all in such relatively poor health and physical condition compared to me that this whole idea my diet may not be responsible is truly laughable.

Read, understand and think- before typing.

Boiling goat or any other meat for 1-2 hours will completely destroy any and all vitamins, denature and render difficult to digest all the proteins, and seems like a total waste of good food- if cooking makes it tough, buy kid, or eat it raw. Raw meat is rarely tough- and if the meat is still tough, cut it up with a sharp knife and swallow the bits with minimal chewing- unchewed meat dissolves all by itself in the stomach juices:

There was a soldier in Napoleon’s army who suffered a nasty cut in battle to his abdomen. The cut was bound up on the battle field and much later was found to have healed to the skin leaving a slit-like opening into the stomach. The doctors decided not to intervene, and subsequently were able to insert various food items into the soldier’s stomach directly- and observe the process of digestion. A whole steak dissolved on about one hour and became a liquid. Vegetables varied from between two to four hours and did not dissolve, just softened and became a kind of mush.

The fresh juice from raw or lightly cooked, rare meat does not contain any blood. Meat will quickly spoil unless ALL traces of blood are quickly removed from the flesh at slaughter. The red colour in meat juice is due to myoglobin, an iron containing compound related structurally to hemoglobin and found throughout muscle tissues. The run-off juice is high in protein and very nourishing- it is chock full of the most delicious flavours.

My direct experience with young babies is that they always instantly take to raw or rare meat, and vigorously reject any and all vegetation. A pediatrician told me at the time of my second kid that a human baby has the ability to digest only two things at birth- human milk and raw meat in paste/chewed up form (so long as not offered with too high a fat level).

At the risk of being repetitious:

Archeological digs into paleolithic people’s homesites show zero evidence of fruit or any type of food vegetation residues, like seed, stems or skin. So any grazing of such foods occurred opportunistically and was done where found.

Our physiognomy is due to the development of speech, our mouths are only secondarily used to eat with- talking has preempted and ruled the size and shape of our mouths and oral cavities. The commonly heard and false contention that we have the organs and teeth of an omnivore are just crude vegetarian propaganda which is so wrong that a child without training should be able to demonstrate the fallacy of by comparing pictures.

Our intestinal structure and length is that of a carnivore- like a big cat, and nothing like an omnivore like the rat or pig.

Our teeth are pure carnivore, they have a continuous enamel coat, are quite sharp, erupt once and do not grow or get replaced just as is the norm for animal of insectivore lineage. They are utterly unlike the complex teeth of herbivores and omnivores- whose teeth grow throughout life.

We really don’t have any very ‘close’ relatives- a term needing definition, as the closest, the pongids or great apes (some of whom like the chimp are good hunters and eat large amounts of meat- mostly monkeys) separated out ~6 million years ago. Of the large genera primates, many are heavy meat eaters, some are widely omnivorous, a few rather short lived monkeys are herbivorous, like the proboscids, and some- like the tree shrew are totally insectivorous.


I have only used the paleo people’s limited evidence of diet to show that we went through a multimillion year long period of total carnivory, and we are the result of selective evolution as to the kinds of things we are most suited to use as food, not to bolster or use as the basis of any of my eating habits, which are based on the Inuit and extensive examination and tests done during the period when there were still those who followed their traditional diet… Plus careful awareness of my own body and the effect of foods on it. I have been subjected to complete examinations on a five to ten year basis all my life, I am not a person who avoids the doctor’s clinic. I made many medical friends who were very interested in testing and measuring me over the years. By nature I am conservative and very skeptical. The things I have found to be true have been through the fire, so to speak.

Whew, can everyone here on this thread read and understand basic Australian/American English?

Cancer of any kind is not diet or nutrition-related, would that it were- it would make it a relatively simple matter to save millions of lives

…NO: I never said that my cancer could have been, or was due to either an environmental OR dietary factor. It was a total surprise to all the medical people involved, from my GP on up, that I got it at all. The fact is, the staff and experts at RPA said that they had no idea why a person as supremely fit as I was should have presented with this type of cancer at all. They asked me to agree to having my DNA studied as part of research aimed at discovering why some people who do not have any of the pointers, habits or exposures that are known to be associated with tonsilar SCC, still come down with it. My high level of fitness enabled me to come through the most grueling of treatments with my health intact- it takes the body very close to death. In fact, I have not had even a cold since.

I have not eaten ANY significant vegetables since I was 23 years of age, so any putative lack of something important or even useful, or nutritional insufficiencies- due to this path must be nonexistent by the simple and well agreed upon basic reality that all the cells in my body have been replaced seven or eight times during that period, and SURELY even to one so defensive as the complainer, this must be taken as showing that vegetation is either of no use to, or may well be bad for, a human’s overall health to ingest in the mistaken idea it is proper food. A firmly held belief-system which runs contrary to observed facts does not make false things true, nor true things false.

My health at present is excellent. Is this due to my lifestyle of no veggies for 47 years? Most assuredly, it is. I have no cancer and I have no other health concerns. My ears are healing nicely after the repair of the grommet-damage.

I don’t understand how trying to make ME look unhealthy is going to accomplish anything, it has nothing to do with reality.

Socialisation/acculturation over writes ALL human instincts.

Focus on the KISS principle: We eat what we eat because (and only because) our mothers ate that way, and their mothers and grandmothers, and great grandmothers, ad infinitum, ate that way, no other reason; not nutrition, not health, nothing.

What you love about vegetables is the result of your early childhood food-training, and has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with whether or not the vegetables you are convinced are ‘divine’ are even good for your body in any way, let alone that we need to eat them. The statement: ‘Honestly, it is hard for me to believe humans aren’t supposed to eat vegetation’ is an opinion only, and not supported by any fact. Belief is superstition, science is tested truth.

I don’t ‘believe’ in anything- I test everything myself to find if it is true.

As many respondents have said in this thread, my path works and it works very well indeed- for all who attempt it, even for those for whom all other ways only work poorly.

Please, let’s have no more unsupported, open ended claims used in attack mode. Please give us a complete list of what you are referring to with the statement: ‘Vegies are chock full of healthful nutrients’. We would really like to know about all those mystic substances you think are only found in vegetation, and must therefore be missing from an all-meat diet.

In a great many years of studying plants, I have only found medicines, defined as things which heal illnesses and disabilities, and things which change or expand consciousness, not ‘nutrients’.


Some cancer is known to be caused by chemical agents, like lung cancer and mesothelioma (asbestos). Some are caused by UV radiation, like skin cancer. Radiation exposure is a known cause, and a few have viral causes (HPV). Many, however are mysterious. I suspect the air pollution mediated by nuclear energy- i.e., tritium decay- the caused of ‘photochemical smog, and perhaps others. Lung cancer amongst non smokers is on the rise, particularly in women in the US- home to well over 100 reactors, plus tonnes of waste held in water. Neutrons and the hydrogen in water wind up as tritium, an unstable, radiation emitting isotope: water- *hydrogen* plus neutron = ‘heavy’ water- *deuterium* plus neutron = ‘heavy-(er)’ water- *tritium*…. tritium minus beta particle- *electron* plus O2 = helium 3 plus 2 O *atomic oxygen*… 2 O plus 2 O2 = 2 O3 *ozone*. Perhaps this ozone is carcinogenic and perhaps beta particles emitted inside the lung are the thing. Food however would have to be contaminated with something… Vegetables raised as food are fed chemicals and pesticides, which may be carcinogenic, but nothing like that is likely to make it through the animal into its meat.

When I eat out, I ask the waiter to leave all teh veggies in the kitchen, as ‘I hate to see food go to waste’. On arrival I may ask the bread dish be removed, but the butter left on the table I don’t order any ‘meat dish’ type food, but rare beef, fried or roasted chicken, fish or soft eggs. I ask that they not put any salt on the meat (I will return overcooked and/or salted meat to the kitchen).

At 12 years into the path, I was sent to jail for 2 years. THAT was a challenge, not restaurants. Jails are like the military, the food is grease and starch based. At first I traded my veggies with other inmates who did not want meat (Black Muslims will not eat chicken or pork) and thus avoided carbs. I worked my way into the food service and was able to feed my self the way I wanted to. I traded my allowed purchase of cigarettes (2 cartons/wk) for a steak a day- separate from what I gave myself from the general food issue. I did very well indeed. Meat can be found everywhere except in a vegetarian restaurant- avoid these.

I do not recommend drinking artificially sweetened drinks like diet cola for eh simple reason that it maintains a taste and desire for sweet-tasting things, and if you do not reinforce this, it will fade away. After about 10 years on the diet I lost all interest in things ‘bad’. Not that I ever was the sort who got ‘sidetracked’. I seem to have a remarkable ability to focus 100% of my attention on something for hours to the exclusion of everything else in my environment. I was like this as a small child.

Of course females adopt socialisation more deeply than males, it is the female’s role in human society to conserve and teach the ‘rules of behaviour’ The mother (not the father) teaches the child what to eat.

Loops- Disregard any other advice. Your ‘problem’ is due to your training, not your diet. The effect of carbs on a person who does not eat them could be just an effect from the ‘insulin rush’, which can act like a central nervous system stimulant, as seen in many children, and is the reason for the mistaken claim common in advertising that carbs are ‘energy food’.

Muscles perform according to the training you give them. Swimming is a low resistance aerobic exercise, distance running is a medium to high resistance aerobic exercise, sprinting is a very high resistance anaerobic exercise. Swimming conditions only your lungs, control of breath and circulation and does not build strength, muscle tone or the kind of endurance which can be transferred to land based exercise. Swimming will stimulate the formation of a uniform layer of fat on your body to counter heat loss.

You can train for endurance (aerobic) or strength (anaerobic) Each uses a different modification of the basic muscle fibre. Each person has a mix of type 1 and type 2, or fast twitch, slow twitch. If you train as a marathoner, you suppress one and enhance the other- if you train as a sprinter, the reverse happens. It is an either/or situation. You cannot be at the same time both a marathoner and a sprinter- there is no free lunch. ALL muscle fibres use the same fuel, fast and slow both burn only fat. NO muscle fibre uses carbs. (Once more) glycogen is not used to do work, only ATP-ADP reduction is used, that is rebuilt by fat. Glycogen does not produce ATP. Glycogen is not depleted with exercise- this is proven and is in the literature. Opinions to the contrary are just repeating fairy tales from the past. Carb intake reduces strength/speed, and likewise reduces endurance/distance.

Do not worry about minerals and other trace nutrients, meat has them all in more than adequate amounts. Supplements, while not necessary are not going to hurt you unless you take them in excess. When I am at a dinner party, I am careful to pick out what I know is just meat and leave the rest, no matter what it is.

Humans have never eaten bones, we cannot digest them and it is a decidedly bad idea to try.

Woo’s problem is eating too many carbs, no matter what ‘reason’ is used as an excuse. Hypoglycemia (low blood glucose) is caused by dietary carb intake. Glucose is stable and constant in a fasting state or in a fat-fed, zero carb, keto-adapted state.

I lift very heavy weights in very short intense workouts, I NEVER eat carbs. I always have heaps of energy. I ride my bike very fast over mountain tails for 30-45 minutes, I always have heaps of energy. Lifting weights has no effect on your glucose. Unless you have some sort of very bad disease or physical disorder, you must be eating sugar or starch in some form to cause your glucose level changes.

Liking veggies has EVERYTHING to do with you socialisation. Socialisation takes the place of (overrides) instinct, and seems to the person socialised to be ‘natural and instinctive’- just as you assert. It is an illusion. I have seen some very creative attempts to justify liking/eating veggies in 47 years: this one is the very best so far. Really taking a stretch. Almost in the same box with the classic “it’s your blood type”.

Again (with feeling)…

Ice cream is: egg yolks, cream, non-lactose milk protein in water, vanilla extract and a tiny pinch of aspartame. For a 6 qt White Mt. churn: 16 yolks, 1.8 litres cream, 250 ml water with 2 heaping tablespoons of a mix of 3 parts calcium caseinate and one part ion exchange whey (not isolate) two tablespoons of high quality vanilla. You can spice it up by grinding up fresh vanilla bean. If you like coffee flavour, add three small cups of short-black espresso. Be careful not to run the machine too long or it will turn to butter.

Humans have classic insectivorous dentition. We have no ‘grinding’ molars like bovines. Our molars are bug-crushing, cannot grow, have unsealed groves which quickly admit bacteria, and thus cannot tolerate abrasion and carbohydrates- they wear away and rot. SOME carnivores need and have shearing teeth, (carnassals), Many animals both carnivores and omnivores as well as some frogs(!) and a deer- have long canines (tusks)- these are used always as display and fighting with some utility as holding tools. We have mouths for speech, and tusks are of no aid when you have knives.

Humans make and use knives- and have done so for ~4.5 million years. Enamel meant to wear grows continuously and is shaped in rolls, the layers separated by dentine, such as all ruminants have. Compared to rats and pigs, our teeth have a very thin and fragile enamel coat. Apes are very distant relations, and their teeth are not a good comparison. I am very well educated on anatomy and comparative anatomy. I am not telling stories, and I did not intend to teach ancient diets and I do not intend to lecture the group on body structures and purposes, but I do feel from time to time a need to clear up widespread misunderstandings of structure.

Where have you been? Gorillas proved sterile in captivity when fed on a total herbivorous diet- It was then discovered that in the wild they consume quantities of insects, principally wood-grubs and their massive back musculature is a specialisation to assist pulling the bark from trees to get at the bugs. Once the nature of the animal food acceptable to gorillas was known, zoos have been able properly feed, and to breed them successfully. With as many papers and studies on chimpanzee hunting/gathering behaviour, I am astounded that you do not understand their dietary habits. Then again, what gorillas and chimps eat is not relevant to human diet, which is what my thread is all about.

What is this term ‘ the meat and egg fast’ supposed to mean? A ‘fast’ means (quite literally) going completely without food, i.e., not eating anything.

Yes, Dean, more myths. Chiropractors are good for putting your back in line, but are mostly charlatans and scams when it comes to everything else. This is why they receive no respect from medicine- most MD’s will suffer long with a spinal displacement, rather than be seen visiting a chiro.

There are not four types, only two, fast and slow, and fast do have more mitochondria and can reprocess ADP to ATP faster than the slow ones, but both use only fatty acids. NO muscle fibre needs, or can use glucose. The following statement is the equivalent to describing a flying pig’s wings:

“The aerobic fast-twitch fiber is really no longer a muscle, but a bag full of mitochondria with a few contractile fibers remaining. The mitochondria in this fiber are one-third the size of those in the aerobic slow-twitch fiber. These smaller mitochondria can only oxidize the components of glucose, not fatty acids or ketones as the larger mitochondria can”. No such thing, I am afraid. Just because you can read something published somewhere does not mean it is true.

Note on cheese, also one of my faves, and something that I consume in every meal- it is VERY constipating if eaten in too high a quantity- this shows up very quickly (and hurts like hell.) Coffee is a good balancer for cheese, as (strong) coffee will give you the runs if taken in too high a quantity. NOTE- This only holds good for someone on a really low carb/zero carb, all meat diet. I think low-carb mixed-diet people (some posts) do not get either effect to any great extent. Since the whole focus of my case here is to elucidate the carnivore, many of you out there may not find some thing of any use in you efforts to find a normal body.

If you do not add sugar, whipped cream is the same as fresh pouring cream. It is quite tasty- I love it.